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Old 06-09-2013, 14:50   #31
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Re: Licence for circumnavigation

O.K.

Two circumnavigations later, I have never been asked for proof of competency. Route included the Milk Run to Australia. Southeast Asia including Malaysia and Thailand. Australia to South Africa via Christmas Island, Rodriques & Madagascar. Yes South Africa requires South Africans to get certificates and such depending on where they intend to sail. Does not affect non-nationals.

Never sailed to anywhere in the E.U., except E.U. territories including French Polynesia, St. Helena (British), Isle Salut (French), Chagos (British), Mayotte (French) and some I've probably overlooked. No demand for proof of competency in any of these.

The primary reason I'll never sail to anywhere in the E.U. is cost, and second obliquely related to the primary reason is bureaucracy and more bureaucracy.

Wouldn't worry about going to a school to obtain such proof, and would avoid countries that do.

By the way, didn't notice the poster's handle with all the's But doesn't he/she win hands down with the most 's in one post?!
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Old 06-09-2013, 15:03   #32
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O.K.

Two circumnavigations later, I have never been asked for proof of competency. Route included the Milk Run to Australia. Southeast Asia including Malaysia and Thailand. Australia to South Africa via Christmas Island, Rodriques & Madagascar. Yes South Africa requires South Africans to get certificates and such depending on where they intend to sail. Does not affect non-nationals.

Never sailed to anywhere in the E.U., except E.U. territories including French Polynesia, St. Helena (British), Isle Salut (French), Chagos (British), Mayotte (French) and some I've probably overlooked. No demand for proof of competency in any of these.

The primary reason I'll never sail to anywhere in the E.U. is cost, and second obliquely related to the primary reason is bureaucracy and more bureaucracy.

Wouldn't worry about going to a school to obtain such proof, and would avoid countries that do.

By the way, didn't notice the poster's handle with all the's But doesn't he/she win hands down with the most 's in one post?!
And I've been loadsa places and never been mugged or shot... but that don't mean it can never happen..
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Old 06-09-2013, 15:17   #33
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Re: Licence for circumnavigation

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And I've been loadsa places and never been mugged or shot... but that don't mean it can never happen..
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Old 06-09-2013, 15:34   #34
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Re: Licence for circumnavigation

............Or buy some paper, a nice seal and a laminator - and if really paranoid set up a website ("I found it by myself on the internet - so it must be real" goes a surprisingly long way ).
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Old 06-09-2013, 15:53   #35
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Re: Licence for circumnavigation

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............Or buy some paper, a nice seal and a laminator - and if really paranoid set up a website ("I found it by myself on the internet - so it must be real" goes a surprisingly long way ).
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Old 06-09-2013, 20:30   #36
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Re: Licence for circumnavigation

The best thing to have in case some idiot official asks for a license to sail the open sea is a boat stamp. Mindless bureaucrats love these and the more mindless they are the more they love them.

I remember one story of a guy entering the Andaman Islands (India) who didn't have a boat stamp and they would not let him ashore without one. So he took a potato, cut it half and carved a stamp. Everyone was satisfied with no loss of face and he continued along his merry way.

We had a similar request when entering the Andamans, the official came aboard and asked me, "Captain, where is your license?"

I told him Americans don't need one.

"Captain," he persisted, "how do I know you are competent to sail this vessel?"

I replied, "I found this place, didn't I?"

End of discussion. You don't need any license (yet) to take advantage of this great lifestyle. As Nike says, Just Do It.

Cheers.

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Old 07-09-2013, 17:13   #37
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Re: Licence for circumnavigation

While a licence is not necessary you might consider a physiologic evaluation and good physical exam to see if you are suited to the task. Unless you are trying to break some record my question is why? I hope the answer is not because its there and you don't know what else to do with yourself. Its not necessary to circumnavigate to live and enjoy the sail bum life and probably a lot safer and more interesting to skip the roundabout.
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Old 07-09-2013, 18:37   #38
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Re: Licence for circumnavigation

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Irish couple on an old Cat in Portimao 2007... they'd gone for a honeymoon sail 2 years earlier and liked it so much they kept going.. UK, France, N. Spain and down to Portimao... there they were asked for proof of competence by the HM... he had nothing (normal in the UK) so he was refused permission to leave without a qualified skipper. When we arrived and heard his story the owner of the boat I was delivering jumped on the Cat to get it out for them then we did a transfer at sea 10 miles down the coast..
That was interesting...
Continental Portugal is a very special place. Ex-Portuguese colonies (Cabo Verde, Brazil, etc.) seem to have inherited that attitude.

I did notice them being a bit stiff and quite grumpy there but they never asked us to produce anything else than our passports and our boat papers. I am glad we have not visited Portimao yet. I know there were some stories of not having the anchor ball up and getting penalized, etc.

I used 'continental Portugal' in my first line above as we visited the Azores and found their authorities and their people so much different than the continent. I great place to visit, with relaxed people and beautiful landscapes. One of my fave landfalls.

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Old 07-09-2013, 18:42   #39
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Re: Licence for circumnavigation

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(...) Its not necessary to circumnavigate to live and enjoy the sail bum life and probably a lot safer and more interesting to skip the roundabout.
Yes, it is stupid to do it but believe me it is fun. Also, if you get far enough, it is in fact much easier to go on rather than to beat homeward.

;-)
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Old 07-09-2013, 19:29   #40
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Re: Licence for circumnavigation

I carry copys of my credentials with all my other boat papers, and the ONLY place that even took copys of them, was Isla M in Cancun Mexico. I can't remember any place else that seemed to give a damn But Im sure Ive either forgotten them, or things have changed!!
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Old 07-09-2013, 23:53   #41
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Re: Licence for circumnavigation

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The primary reason I'll never sail to anywhere in the E.U. is cost, and second obliquely related to the primary reason is bureaucracy and more bureaucracy.
You have a false impression about bureaucracy in Europe, at least what pertains to sailing.

Bureaucratic nirvana what concerns sailing is the UK, where boats are not registered, not taxed, not regulated almost in any way whatsoever, no qualifications required, not even any safety regulations, no toilet police. Clearing customs and passport control is done over the phone or online ("yachtphone") or most people don't even bother. I have thousands of miles and four years of cruising experience on the South Coast of England and have never been boarded, inspected, or hassled in any way whatsoever (very different from the U.S.).

Between EU countries there is no customs and no clearance. Between non-Schengen countries a non-European citizen is supposed to go through passport control, but in practice no one cares. The French simply to refuse to exercise passport control on Americans sailing from the UK, unless you insist. In the Channel Islands (which are neither EU nor Schengen), customs clearance and passport control consists of filling out a one page form and dropping it in a box at the pierhead.

The only time I've ever been boarded in a couple of decades of cruising in Europe was in France, in Ushant this summer. A heavily armed but exquisitely courteous squad of French doanniers came roaring up on Darth Vader's 2000 horsepower blacked-out RIB, came on board, with non-marking shoes no less (I wish the USCG would take a leaf). Took up positions on my deck well calculated to machine-gun me and my crew in case we turned out to be Al Qaeda. Looked through my documents and crew's passports, actually found a defect in my documents (boat is registered in a company name and I forgot to bring an authorization from the company), gave me friendly advice on what to do about it before the next trip, wished us a pleasant cruise, and departed with a friendly wave. Proving that seriousness and efficiency and thoroughness does not exclude courtesy; someone needs to tell that to our Coast Guard.

In Europe there is no such thing as a zarpa, there are almost no borders, no toilet police, no cruising permits, almost no clearing in and out, no qualifications, with only a few exceptions like Croatia. It's the first world, so you don't have hungry corrupt petty bureaucrats just waiting to find a way to shake you down, like in the third world.

If your boat is foreign flagged, you do have to be careful about VAT, but this requires nothing but leaving the EU once in 18 months. In some countries, like Spain, you also have to be careful about not running afoul of national taxes on boats which are present for more than half the year

As to cost, it is generally less than the U.S. My 54' (60' LOA) boat costs about 60 pounds a night, about $100, including electric, in the most expensive marinas on the South Coast, which is the most expensive place in Europe outside the Med, less than we pay for my father's 37' boat in redneck spots in SW Florida. I rarely stay in marinas; there are municipal ports which are cheaper and more atmospheric, like Weymouth, where I spend 42 pounds including electricity. Or anchor. In France, the berthing is just about half of what it is in the UK. I will pay about 40 euros for a nice marina berth in the middle of Cherbourg, later this week. This summer, I paid 22 euros (!) a night for a lovely hammerhead berth in the middle of the gorgeous town of Audiernes, in South Brittany, which on top of that has the friendliest harbormaster in the universe.

If you have a breakdown or run aground, you will towed usually for free. The rescue services are the best in the world, and if, God forbid, you have to use them, they will not send you a bill, unlike the case in many countries.

Europe is a really, really good place to cruise. Certain parts of the Med should be avoided in summer as overcrowded and expensive, but the Med is only a fairly small part of what Europe has to offer, and summer is not the only good time to cruise.
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Old 08-09-2013, 03:12   #42
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pirate Re: Licence for circumnavigation

Funny... when wanting to go through the bridge at Kharis, Greece I had to produce ALL my doc's including my RYA ticket... and on my last trip to the USA the immigration guy asked my reason to visit the states... when I said it was to collect a delivery he demanded to see my certificate... have a funny feeling if I had not been carrying it in my hand baggage I'da had difficulties... again... normal in the US for me..
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