Length vs Beating, course vs pounding

[markbarendt]

A few weeks back my wife and I did our bare boat training practicals in the BVI's. (We passed.)

We were there on a Beneteau 50 and, late in the week, in the afternoon, we got to beat our way up the Sir Francis Drake channel from Soper's Hole to Norman Island against 25 gusting 35 and decent size waves and chop. We had reefed appropriately and were under the watchful eye of a competent instructor.

It was rough enough that the Catamaran in our flotilla needed some rigging maintenance and other boats (unrelated to our group) that arrived at Norman Island that afternoon had ripped their genoas to shreds.

My expectation leaving Spoer's Hole, given the Bene is not a classic blue water design, was that the ride was going to be rough; but it wasn't. (The guys on the Cat did complain.)

It was a pleasant surprise to find in fact that it was generally comfortable and easy to make the ride more comfortable, and drier, with very minor course adjustments.

Three ideas/possibilities seem to stick out here for me.

First, is that in general, a 50' boat may simply ride better than say a 35' or 40' boat.

Second, is that maybe that beating to windward, in general, gets a bad rap simply because we try to 'bite off' too much. What I'm getting at is that many stories of epic, uncomfortable beats, seem to be where people are obviously push to get 'a bit extra' out of their path or some other artificial constraint like wanting to keep land close.

Third, seems to be a testament to the comfort and durability of a mono as the sea state gets more challenging. While our buddies were licking their wounds we we took the dinghy to the beach.

Am I reading too much into this or are these ideas realities you've seen in the real world too?

[keith001]

Reefed appropriately. Enough said.

[markbarendt]

Just to be clear, the guys in our group on the Cat had also reefed appropriately and were well supervised.

[Foolish]

You were in a heavy displacement, fifty foot boat. Yes that would be comfortable in those winds. But now try that same voyage in a thirty foot ultralight boat and you will see what people are talking about. Now, figure out what size of boat you can afford to actually purchase, rather than merely rent, and you'll understand what the fuss is about. There is a saying in the boat building industry that displacement is your friend.

[StuM]

> First, is that in general, a 50' boat may simply ride better than say a 35' or 40' boa

That's it in a nutshell.

[Jim Cate]

You were in a heavy displacement, fifty foot boat.

First time I've heard Beneteaus described as "heavy displacement" boats! I think rather that it was a function of LWL, not displacement that made the ride more comfortable.

Jim

[markbarendt]

Originally Posted by Foolish

You were in a heavy displacement, fifty foot boat. Yes that would be comfortable in those winds. But now try that same voyage in a thirty foot ultralight boat and you will see what people are talking about. Now, figure out what size of boat you can afford to actually purchase, rather than merely rent, and you'll understand what the fuss is about. There is a saying in the boat building industry that displacement is your friend.

Like Jim, I don’t see the Beneteau as heavy, it’s displacement to length ratio is about 136. That was why I was a bit surprised. That’s the reason for the question, I wanted to see if it was more about Length or more about how the crew chose to sail.

[markbarendt]

Originally Posted by keith001

Reefed appropriately. Enough said.

I do think this is definitely part of it.

[markbarendt]

Originally Posted by StuM

> First, is that in general, a 50' boat may simply ride better than say a 35' or 40' boa

That's it in a nutshell.

If it really is that simple I can definitely see being more willing to put in more sweat to afford a bit bigger than the 40ish’ boats that we’ve been looking at.

[Pauls]

Length always increases stability. And cost. It's a compromise we all address.

[hlev00]

It’s been a while but my recollection of the SFDC is that it is more like a large lake or bay. Beating gets rougher in large steep seas. Most modern boats are very flat so pound in these conditions. The size of your boat plus reefing appropriately definitely helped. We don’t mind too much beating in our Beneteau 42 but it does get tiring in the wrong conditions.

[Paul L]

Second, is that maybe that beating to windward, in general, gets a bad rap simply because we try to 'bite off' too much.

Nah, it has a very well earned reputation from all walks of cruisers. Beating for a few hours in the afternoon in relatively protected waters is not comparable to say beating 900 miles to weather from Florida to the Virgins. That includes making 3 meals a day and sailing 24/7.
As cruisers in a pretty seaworthy boat we do a lot to avoid lengthy beats.

[gmakhs]

Beating 700 miles against the trades in my 26 feet , I can assure you that bigger boats are more comfortable as far as they are designed and engineered properly .
Most modern designs are not , neither is mine but she sails well .

[Dave_S]

I think it will come down to wave period V's boat length. In most situations that you are likely to sail in, a longer boat will be more comfortable. It is possible that the swell could be large enough and the right/wrong wave period that a 40' boat was more comfortable than a 50' but that will be unusual.

[Tillsbury]

Length and reefing. A combination of the two makes for less heel and comfortable motion. In a more modern design you will want to reef more, but you’ll still get the speed and the righting moment of a beamy boat will benefit you with less heel than an older form of hull.