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Old 28-12-2013, 16:14   #31
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Re: Legitimate Bluewater Question

Hmm, Oyster not immune to grounding...

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Old 28-12-2013, 16:18   #32
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Re: Legitimate Bluewater Question

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Hmm, Oyster not immune to grounding...

and like the Titanic, when mixed with ice, Oysters are not unsinkable



UK family rescued by Royal Navy after yacht hits iceberg in South Atlantic | Mail Online
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Old 28-12-2013, 16:36   #33
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Re: Legitimate Bluewater Question

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And like the Titanic, when mixed with ice, Oysters are not unsinkable



UK family rescued by Royal Navy after yacht hits iceberg in South Atlantic | Mail Online
Only the ice itself is really unsinkable.
However it does melt
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Old 28-12-2013, 16:54   #34
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Re: Legitimate Bluewater Question

This has nothing to do with type of boat or equipment.

The best way to not be boat B is to not have a schedule that causes you to take weather risks.

The B boat went ashore on May 19th 2009 at New Smyrna Beach Florida. Here's a weather map from the 18th.

Dr. Jeff Masters' WunderBlog : Florida poised for a substantial soaking | Weather Underground
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Old 28-12-2013, 17:04   #35
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Re: Legitimate Bluewater Question

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Hmm, Oyster not immune to grounding...

While I've no doubt that like any boat an Oyster can hit the bricks due to gear failure, poor sailing skills, etc, this particular photo is of an Oyster that was stolen and then run aground by (apparently) drug-addled crazy people. They were under power -- you will notice the furled sails -- and I suspect that the thief ran out of fuel or neglected to open the cooling-water seacock or something.

Just keeping things fair here...
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Old 28-12-2013, 17:13   #36
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I'm not sure what the OP is trying to achieve in this thread. The oyster is being sailed only reasonably well in sea conditions that are far far from fully developed or they are in protected waters. Wind in itself is nothing to be feared and will never challenge a boat , waves on the other hand are potential boat killers

Remember this is a near 50 boat , anything of similar size from Hunters up would perform exactly the same in those conditions , so nothing can be learned there

Nor would I agree with deploying storm sails , the boat doesn't need them and Attaching it would now require a deck trip.

Video B is merely an illustration of human hubris. It's very very common even amongst experienced skippers to reliance on engines. I can think of several myself. What I now realise is that in any bad weather of the coast , I constantly think sea room sea room. On a lee shore I would make pacts with the devil rather then approach a lee shore.

The biggest issues often cascade from simple events. For example how many people have motored out of a harbour in onshore breezes could then suddenly raise sail and say clear the breakwater.

Little can be drawn from these two videos , other then Murphy is always a crew member and we live with that

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Old 28-12-2013, 17:21   #37
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Re: Legitimate Bluewater Question

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Nor would I agree with deploying storm sails , the boat doesn't need them and Attaching it would now require a deck trip.

It's both hard on the sail to have that undesigned load on it (note he is rolled beyond any designed tack patch) and he would have trouble with sail shape if he had to turn and go upwind. And the helm balance is probably bad (note the steering)

. For example how many people have motored out of a harbour in onshore breezes could then suddenly raise sail and say clear the breakwater.

I was trained by my betters to always raise the main ASAP, just before lifting the hook off the bottom or leaving the protected Harbour. I don't always do it, but I usually do. My betters would usually sail off their hooks and into their slips. They were brought up with either no engine or completely unreliable ones.
...........
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Old 28-12-2013, 17:27   #38
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Re: Safety vs Comfort Question

I think there is 3 stand line off the bow. Looks like the dink was in tow as the yellow painter runs aft.
Culmination of problems perhaps.
I once picked up a pot line off Nantucket. Plenty of room but it pulled the shaft out if its coupler and jammed the rudder. Now I have a mess. I was able to clear unwrapp enough line to get the prop off the rudder.then the wind picked up. Had to cut the line and sail into anchorage. Now we have a spare zinc as a stopper at the bearing. Wind picked up pretty good and then the microwave flew across the cabin. Assumed that the nuke box had been bolted in. The boat had prior done a trip to the Bahamas. Don't assume. Now there is broken glass all over the sole.
All small f ups. Had they gone together in a different sequence the down hill spiral could have begun to the tipping point. Being able to filter out the tiny stuff and look at the next good choice even if it's uncomfortable can make the difference between A andB
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Old 28-12-2013, 17:28   #39
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Re: Legitimate Bluewater Question

I don't raise the main until I'm ready to start sailing, but before leaving the slip or hook I have all sail covers off and sheets/halyards rigged and ready to go.
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Old 28-12-2013, 17:30   #40
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Re: Legitimate Bluewater Question

It's simple stuff. A prudent sailor uses superior maintenance procedures, weather planning and crew training to avoid having to use superior seamanship skills to prevent ending up as a 'Video B'. These situations aren't caused by one factor-it's more like dominoes join' over.
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Old 28-12-2013, 17:51   #41
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Re: Legitimate Bluewater Question

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I don't raise the main until I'm ready to start sailing, but before leaving the slip or hook I have all sail covers off and sheets/halyards rigged and ready to go.
Understood . . . My teachers thought you should be "ready to start sailing" the moment your hook was off the bottom or were out of the marina aisle.
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Old 28-12-2013, 18:06   #42
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Re: Legitimate Bluewater Question

Two sailing seasons under your belt and you haven't even considered storm sails yet??

How about a drogue? Sea anchor? The previously mentioned plenty of sea room? Difficult to hit much out at sea.
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Old 28-12-2013, 18:10   #43
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Quote:

Nor would I agree with deploying storm sails , the boat doesn't need them and Attaching it would now require a deck trip.

It's both hard on the sail to have that undesigned load on it (note he is rolled beyond any designed tack patch) and he would have trouble with sail shape if he had to turn and go upwind. And the helm balance is probably bad (note the steering)

. For example how many people have motored out of a harbour in onshore breezes could then suddenly raise sail and say clear the breakwater.

I was trained by my betters to always raise the main ASAP, just before lifting the hook off the bottom or leaving the protected Harbour. I don't always do it, but I usually do. My betters would usually sail off their hooks and into their slips. They were brought up with either no engine or completely unreliable ones.
50 knots of wind down wind running at 8 knots. Is 42 apparent, to suggest that sail is under excessive pressure is nonsensical. I've sailed on F 10s with many roller furlers over long distances. I see little value in a storm stay sail unless the boat has a good inner stay and buy preference where I have that I like a nice rugged blade of a jib

The steering is probably merely poor helping on response to the waves.

While I agree with your betters , every day of the week I see people motoring out into weather unprepared to sail. Modern diesels are so reliable. I think many people just except the odd accident for the convenience.

Experience is no protector of idiots and all of us do idiot things at times


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Old 28-12-2013, 18:10   #44
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Re: Legitimate Bluewater Question

I can change my Racor primary filter and On engine spinon in under 5 minutes and bleed both . If you cannot you might be in video B.
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Old 28-12-2013, 18:13   #45
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Re: Legitimate Bluewater Question

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Originally Posted by hoppy View Post
and like the Titanic, when mixed with ice, Oysters are not unsinkable



UK family rescued by Royal Navy after yacht hits iceberg in South Atlantic | Mail Online
I do know the story on this boat which I reviewed prior to the purchase of our own. The couple onboard were truly testing the limits of any boat, any size if you read the story. Thankfully, their behavior was saved by a vessel able to stay afloat long enough for them to be rescued, a couple of days if I remember correctly... unlike the Titanic.

I missed the other picture during my search... I was looking for videos. Now that the Oyster pictures are posted, can we please get back on topic.

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