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Old 16-07-2012, 21:03   #91
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Re: LATEST PIRATE NEWS

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Originally Posted by Bruce626 View Post
tropicalescape wrote "I think history The look of incredulity on the faces of the pirates as you stand on the transom with the slow fuse held in your teeth, smoke trailing from both ends and agrenade in each hand is likely to be priceless.
If I thought you were serious I would be worried, but the image you describe is priceless and it only has the eyepatch missing.

Trouble then is telling exactly who is the pirate.
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Old 16-07-2012, 21:34   #92
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Re: LATEST PIRATE NEWS

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What you are describing is "feudalism", it ended in the western world when the peasants rose up and attacked the rulers responsible, with no worse an arms disparity than what exists today.
I thought the invention of the longbow evened out the arms disparity, some called it the end of the world when serfs could cut off a branch and with a steel tipped arrow take down a fully armoured knight at range...

anyway, slippery slope but perhaps we need to provide some arms to even things out IMO.
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Old 17-07-2012, 14:18   #93
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Re: LATEST PIRATE NEWS

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Er, I don't know if you've been to Europe, or heard of just how peachy it has been here in the last 100 years, let alone the last 500.....but may I suggest the warlords and marauders have been here all the time, they just got a whole lot more sophisticated and deadly; and that the "rule of law" may be an apt description of this delightful place as long as you don't confuse it with righteous laws consistently and reasonably applied, and justice done. I don't speak of the Marxist kind of "justice", or the feudal-capitalist kind either.


Ok, I enjoyed this little sidetrip down thread derail junction...let's get back to the smoke and mirror show, and pass remark on the curious trees, and forget the forest.
"DANGER DANGER POLITICS"

I don't understand, the US news tells us Europe is a "Workers Paradise", and we should scrap our system ,and adopt theirs.

I've only been to a couple of European countries, but I was never afraid of being eaten,....oh wait.
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Old 17-07-2012, 19:41   #94
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Re: LATEST PIRATE NEWS

"the US news tells us Europe is a "Workers Paradise", and we should scrap our system ,and adopt theirs." ==> They also tell us how safe it is because of the strict gun control laws - but one notices on the news and such that the government forces and hard core criminals - especially those in the drug and human trafficking trade - seem to be well armed. The honest citizen not so much. I was in France some years ago and was astounded at the number of guys strolling around with short assault rifles or sub-machine guns strapped across their chest. That much casual firepower seemed to contradict that the local criminals were without guns. In the USA, our police are armed - but those arms are typically holstered handguns and the police carry several less than lethal options - pepper spray, batons, and sometimes tasers. Heavier firepower is available but typically in the car - the 12 gauge riot gun and/or some kind of tactical .223 locked in the trunk.

Apparently until the local criminal gets into the big leagues, the widespread carrying and use of knives is on the rise - especially from those who have recently immigrated from cultures where knives and their use is more widespread. This is exposing the local citizenry to a greatly increased risk of encounters with blades - to which options are limited. The carrying of knives by the honest citizen is not really a useful response since few have the knowledge or will to use such a weapon. I suppose that one could always try to attract the attention of a local gendarme - and run the risk of being hosed with 9mm bullets from a half block away. Likely the best response to a knife armed thug - if one wants to engage in defense - is a sturdy cane. More reach than a knife and typically already in your hand, and since it is very visible, the typical thug is likely to pick someone who is without such an implement.

For a passive defense, one might wear a lightweight mail shirt with the links made from aluminum tubing. The tubing can be such a diameter so that four rings take up nearly all the room in the ring they go through (assuming the normal 4 in 1 European mail pattern). By using a simple connector (=II=) the links could be joined for greater strength (possibly using a thin epoxy glue); or (<=II=>) made of harder aluminum to just pressure fit the connector. Such a vest would stop both slashes and thrusts to the torso, but would still breathe - and would not significantly slow you down if you decided to run. Not for everyone, but a possible option in an increasingly bladed world.
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Old 17-07-2012, 19:53   #95
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"the US news tells us Europe is a "Workers Paradise", and we should scrap our system ,and adopt theirs." ==> They also tell us how safe it is because of the strict gun control laws - but one notices on the news and such that the government forces and hard core criminals - especially those in the drug and human trafficking trade - seem to be well armed. The honest citizen not so much. I was in France some years ago and was astounded at the number of guys strolling around with short assault rifles or sub-machine guns strapped across their chest. That much casual firepower seemed to contradict that the local criminals were without guns. In the USA, our police are armed - but those arms are typically holstered handguns and the police carry several less than lethal options - pepper spray, batons, and sometimes tasers. Heavier firepower is available but typically in the car - the 12 gauge riot gun and/or some kind of tactical .223 locked in the trunk.
The vast majority of ordinary police in Europe just carry simple semi auto sidearms. Not to mention Ireland, the Uk , norway and New Zealand, countries that have an unarmed uniformed police force or are unarmed during normal police business.

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Old 17-07-2012, 20:15   #96
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Re: LATEST PIRATE NEWS

goboatingnow wrote " Not to mention Ireland, the Uk , norway and New Zealand, countries that have an unarmed uniformed police force or are unarmed during normal police business." ==> And we recently saw how well that worked in the recent incident in Norway. Both free and occupied Ireland have groups with significant armaments - including heavy machine guns and explosives, probably best if the unarmed police don't antagonize them. The UK is one of those places where the carrying and use of bladed weapons is rising relatively rapidly - and their hard core criminals generally seemed to be well armed. As for New Zealand, I suppose that by and large sheep are relatively peaceful, so no worries there mate.
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Old 18-07-2012, 03:16   #97
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Originally Posted by Bruce626
goboatingnow wrote " Not to mention Ireland, the Uk , norway and New Zealand, countries that have an unarmed uniformed police force or are unarmed during normal police business." ==> And we recently saw how well that worked in the recent incident in Norway. Both free and occupied Ireland have groups with significant armaments - including heavy machine guns and explosives, probably best if the unarmed police don't antagonize them. The UK is one of those places where the carrying and use of bladed weapons is rising relatively rapidly - and their hard core criminals generally seemed to be well armed. As for New Zealand, I suppose that by and large sheep are relatively peaceful, so no worries there mate.
This of course is thread drift, firstly why would anyone want armed police if you can get away with having them unarmed.

Norways recent calamity, would not have been stopped by armed police either. They simply weren't there in the first place.

The Vast majority of Ireland paramilitaries have undergone voluntary disarmament. The UK remains a reasonably crime free place to live.

Just saying like

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Old 18-07-2012, 04:18   #98
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Re: LATEST PIRATE NEWS

Thank you, this has been an interesting thread to follow, particularly because I am planning on starting my circumnavigation in the Spring (it was supposed to be now, but darned contracts got in the way!), and our first leg was supposed to be the Red Sea. And I am impressed that we have been able to discuss the causes and effects without the thread becoming disruptive. Thanks again.

Now then, back on track...

I have been following this company on Facebook: Ocean Protection Services Limited - Consulting/Business Services - London, United Kingdom | Facebook

I am getting the impression that governments are upping their levels of surveillance, and even attack (I guess shipping routes must be nearly as valuable as the oil etc which is shipped!!). Numbers of successful hijacks on ships do appear to be falling, which is a hopeful sign.

Of course, there have been no attacks on yachts recently... but I suspect this is because there have been very few yachts in the area recently. And those who are there aren't going to tell us they are there...

But I wonder if anyone knows of anyone who HAS attempted the passage recently?
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Old 18-07-2012, 06:50   #99
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Re: LATEST PIRATE NEWS

goboatingnow wrote 1) "firstly why would anyone want armed police if you can get away with having them unarmed." ==> I suppose that we would be in agreement if the 'get away with' part was indicating that there was likely a very low level of violence that involved weapons and threats to life and limb. The trend seems to be in the other direction however.

2) "Norways recent calamity, would not have been stopped by armed police either. They simply weren't there in the first place." ==> Exactly. The police tend to be a reactive response and do little for the law abiding citizen at the time some miscreant is wreaking mayhem (or threats thereof) on his hapless victim. This is why the concealed carry option is so often useful. Had even a couple of the hundred+ victims on the island been appropriately trained and packing, this kind of incident could be moderated with likely some saving of innocent lives. One notes that the peace loving adherents to Islam are also using this tactic more often - Bombay for example, or Major Hassan. This tactic is especially useful when the civil populace is totally disarmed and the miscreant is the only person with a gun (often guns, and lots of ammunition). They can then just walk around with impunity shooting the unarmed civilians - or the unarmed police should they interfere.

It is this same low probability of armed resistance to the nefarious activities of miscreants boarding the boats of hapless cruisers that has been discussed on this thread. The foreign cruisers are not allowed to carry or use firearms, and the police - if any - are far away, slow, ill equipped to assist, and either uninterested or part of the problem. This is the problem of a reliance on lights and alarms - good for early warning and psychological pressure, but unlikely to result in any effective and timely reaction on the part of either authorities or fellow cruisers (who are also unarmed). The only viable options seem to be: 1) don't go; 2) go, trusting in luck to avoid problems; 3) go, but take precautions for early warning and try to shift the problem to someone else; and, 4) go, taking all reasonable precautions and be reasonably ready to protect yourself and your boat with the legal - typically improvised - weapons that you are allowed under law.
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Old 18-07-2012, 11:11   #100
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Re: LATEST PIRATE NEWS

He's a couple articles about US action on Piracy that I thought was pretty interesting:

For Pirates, U.S. Courts Offer No Safe Harbor : NPR

Seems to be working


World Sea Piracy Plunges In First 6 Months Of 2012 : NPR
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Old 18-07-2012, 12:19   #101
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Re: LATEST PIRATE NEWS

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Cpn Bill:
I don't understand, the US news tells us Europe is a "Workers Paradise", and we should scrap our system ,and adopt theirs.

I've only been to a couple of European countries, but I was never afraid of being eaten,....oh wait.
Lol...it could be an interesting discussion, but it's off-topic and likely off-forum. No, it is not peachy over here, and you over there are already well past the point of no return. Chief Garden Gnome Rompuy admitted in 2009 that the Eu is the core and model of the coming Global Government. Endgame.

Bruce summed up the options and actions for a cruiser, buy that man a large beer and tamp it well down with a rum chaser. However, he only gets the refreshments when he reviews his idea of aluminium maille.
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Old 18-07-2012, 16:26   #102
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Re: LATEST PIRATE NEWS

Can you hire mercenaries in a steel boat? Even moderately well armed they would be a fair deterrent and i would have thought cheaper for a week or two passage for say 10 boats than a cargo ship.
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Old 18-07-2012, 19:13   #103
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Stock up on rum and whiskey. You can make Molotov cocktails as greeting presents for wannabe boarders/pirates/criminals, then disinfect your new prisoners wounds (if they survived or weren't already thrown over the side) and then calm your nerves afterwards. The best part, its legal and available everywhere............prices may vary.
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Old 18-07-2012, 19:43   #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce626
goboatingnow wrote 1) "firstly why would anyone want armed police if you can get away with having them unarmed." ==> I suppose that we would be in agreement if the 'get away with' part was indicating that there was likely a very low level of violence that involved weapons and threats to life and limb. The trend seems to be in the other direction however.
Yes but in most western countries that is the case , gun crime especially gun crime involving murder is low. Most citizens go their whole lives never seeing or hearing a gun. I believe that's the correct way.


As to Norway, citizens packing guns may or may not have had any effect it hasn't stopped mass murder in the US or elsewhere.

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Old 18-07-2012, 21:21   #105
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Re: LATEST PIRATE NEWS

goboatingnow wrote 1) "Most citizens go their whole lives never seeing or hearing a gun." ==> Curious, given the prevalence of firearms on TV and in the movies; and most citizens would likely have seen armed police and/or military. Perhaps you meant handled guns in western countries outside of North America.


2) "As to Norway, citizens packing guns may or may not have had any effect it hasn't stopped mass murder in the US or elsewhere." ==> Perhaps not yet, but there is a massive amount of information out on the internet and in local news reports about armed citizens in the USA using personal firearms to protect their families, themselves, and/or their property from armed miscreants engaging in criminal activity. The liberal left leaning press establishment rarely leads with these kinds of stories so the data must be searched for with some diligence. Perhaps a search of news reports where the citizen is holding a miscreant at gunpoint while waiting for the police to arrive might make interesting or instructive reading. Note that many more such incidents go unreported unless the miscreant is being held as often citizens don't want to report such an incident by making an official report and attract often unpredictable results.

I encouraged a drunk and potentially dangerous person to leave the vicinity of my house on one occasion. After midnight a large drunk was in the street talking to themselves in a loud voice and smashing empty beer bottles on the corner lamppost. I simply stepped onto my darkened front porch - left dark as I did not want to light myself up - and racked my twelve gauge riot gun. This has a distinctive sound which which the person was apparently familiar as he immediately took off running down the street away from the sound. End of problem with no police involvement. Naturally, I could have taken the time to armor up and pick up one of any number of medieval weapons lying about my house and go confront the person - but then things might have gotten messy as unpredictable events often do. An unarmed citizen might well have fewer options - and would likely be dependent on the eventual appearance of a summoned minion of local law enforcement (assuming that they were not otherwise occupied).
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