Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 08-07-2012, 13:07   #16
Senior Cruiser
 
atoll's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: gettin naughty on the beach in cornwall
Boat: 63 custom alloy sloop,macwester26,prout snowgoose 37 elite catamaran!
Posts: 9,311
Images: 75
Re: LATEST PIRATE NEWS

my neighbour has bought this vessel for cruising the red sea and gulf of aden
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	barge to london 194.jpg
Views:	163
Size:	414.7 KB
ID:	43168  
__________________

__________________
my catamaran building project updates http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...36#post2502136
atoll is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 08-07-2012, 13:47   #17
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: New York, New York
Boat: Dufour Safari 27'
Posts: 384
Re: LATEST PIRATE NEWS

Quote:
Originally Posted by ArmyDaveNY View Post
Thank you for the summation of the report. I found it rather interesting. Although everyone is focused on the horn of Africa, do they discuss other piracy hotspots? Not all that long ago the Straights of Malacca were a real problem (although the nature of the piracy was somewhat different) and I've heard that there is a problem around Venezuela to name a few areas.

I just downloaded the report and it is quite interesting. I see now that it only deals with the Horn of Africa. One thing that sticks out is that the number of hostages taken has decreased by roughly fifty percent. This is due to a number of factors such as improved security by the crews (passive measures), armed action by navies, and perhaps most of all, by armed security on ships. According to the report they prevented some 81 takeovers out of 189 attempts.

Sadly there are some significant omissions in the report. They report that nineteen hostages died during rescue attempts but do not mention how many were freed. Additionally they don't break out the figures for those deaths. For example, what were the nature of the rescue attempts? Were these on land? Were these crew who were in a safe room on a ship? How many of these were on freighters and how many were on sailing vessels? Were these attempts at rescue during the act of piracy or were they after the pirates had already secured the crew and vessel? What has happened to the ships taken?

Based upon the report it appears that the reduction has come about for freighters and not as much or at all for yachts. Even here any discussion about yachts seems to be as an adjunct since the primary focus is on the commercial maritime industry and less about pleasure craft. They do however note that pleasure craft crews have much to be worried about. The likelihood of receiving a ransom is less so the crew is more likelihood to be held longer and suffer more.

The use of armed resistance, patrols, navies, etc. has slightly reduced the number of attempts and significantly reduced the number of hostages taken (roughly 50% less). This doesn't seem to have helped the crews of pleasure yachts however. Ignorance among the pirates is high. Combine this with the lower and slower payouts, along with the possibility of no payout, and it looks like yacht crew are in for a rough go of it if taken.
__________________

__________________
ArmyDaveNY is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 08-07-2012, 13:47   #18
Registered User
 
micah719's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Somewhere in Germany
Boat: OEM, proportional
Posts: 1,436
Re: LATEST PIRATE NEWS

Humblest apologies Cap'n May & readers; if my previous two posts were on the nose, I beg forgiveness if I have offended with what might have been perceived as too broad a brush or by plain speaking of my mind...and for submitting a third post to the thread when I wanted to be quit with it.

There is nothing to be gained by going soft on piracy, as history shows. There are significant distinctions amongst terrorism, robbery with violence, petty theft, consistent enforcement of righteous laws, and justifiable self defence. There are moral absolutes.

Did John Wayne say: "Life's tough. It's even tougher if you're stupid"? Hopefully, we haven't arrived at the point where human evil has made cruising the seas a stupid move....as living in "civilisation" all too often seems. Beam me up Scotty...
__________________
micah719 is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 08-07-2012, 14:37   #19
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: New York, New York
Boat: Dufour Safari 27'
Posts: 384
Re: LATEST PIRATE NEWS

Quote:
Originally Posted by micah719 View Post
Humblest apologies Cap'n May & readers; if my previous two posts were on the nose, I beg forgiveness if I have offended with what might have been perceived as too broad a brush or by plain speaking of my mind...and for submitting a third post to the thread when I wanted to be quit with it.

There is nothing to be gained by going soft on piracy, as history shows. There are significant distinctions amongst terrorism, robbery with violence, petty theft, consistent enforcement of righteous laws, and justifiable self defence. There are moral absolutes.

Did John Wayne say: "Life's tough. It's even tougher if you're stupid"? Hopefully, we haven't arrived at the point where human evil has made cruising the seas a stupid move....as living in "civilisation" all too often seems. Beam me up Scotty...
I was not offended at all. History has proven again and again that taking decisive, quick, and well planned action usually leads to a quick resolution with much less loss of life, expense, etc. History has also shown that by ignoring what must be done, the ultimate cost in lives, materiel, time, and money is usually much, much higher.

In the Straights of Malacca piracy was a growing problem towards the end of the 90's and into the 2000's. The Indonesian and Singapore navies took action and cut the rate of attacks from 150 to 79 in the first year alone and cut it again to 50 in the second year. Admittedly the nature of the piracy was somewhat different however it is the taking of action that fixed it. There are many other examples of this type. Here in New York City we had a major crime problem. Finally, the police (and society) took decisive action, became proactive instead of reactive, and crime plummeted. A more extreme yet highly effective example is back in the 1980s in Lebanon. Islamic terrorists (factions of Hezbollah) kidnapped a diplomat from the Soviet Union. The Soviets kidnapped a relative of one of the kidnappers and delivered a body part to the Islamic kidnappers. The diplomat was released pretty quickly and there were NO FURTHER abductions of Soviets yet the abductions of those from other countries continued.

Others here have correctly pointed out that there will always be poor destitute people willing to fill in the losses. They have few, if any, other options and the allure of quick wealth beyond the imagination is very strong. The solution is indeed on land. If you destroy the ill gotten gains the leaders have they will quickly realize they are better off quitting while they are ahead. They may move into other areas of crime but will stop piracy if it is too painful.
__________________
ArmyDaveNY is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 08-07-2012, 15:37   #20
Registered User
 
Sabbatical II's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Lake Macquarie
Boat: Bluewater 420 CC
Posts: 756
Images: 1
Re: LATEST PIRATE NEWS

Being realistic, the problem we have is that no one really cares or even understands the private yachtie. If the authorities could stamp out the piracy threat towards commercial shipping they will have solved a global economic problem and they would be content with that. The only way the yachting community will get satisfaction is if it comes as a spin-off to solving the commercial threat.

That a private sailor who is only "on holidays" and chooses to travel into what is really a war zone when there are other ways of getting to the same destination is unthinkable to the wider public and unlikely to attract the sympathy of the masses.

I know it's inconvenient as I was intending transiting the Red Sea next year myself. But let's face it, I'm only on holidays anyway and there are problems for our world leaders to solve that make a recreational yachtie's inconvenience seem a little trffling.
__________________
Greg
Sabbatical II is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 08-07-2012, 16:06   #21
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: New York, New York
Boat: Dufour Safari 27'
Posts: 384
Re: LATEST PIRATE NEWS

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eleebana View Post
Being realistic, the problem we have is that no one really cares or even understands the private yachtie. If the authorities could stamp out the piracy threat towards commercial shipping they will have solved a global economic problem and they would be content with that. The only way the yachting community will get satisfaction is if it comes as a spin-off to solving the commercial threat.

That a private sailor who is only "on holidays" and chooses to travel into what is really a war zone when there are other ways of getting to the same destination is unthinkable to the wider public and unlikely to attract the sympathy of the masses.

I know it's inconvenient as I was intending transiting the Red Sea next year myself. But let's face it, I'm only on holidays anyway and there are problems for our world leaders to solve that make a recreational yachtie's inconvenience seem a little trffling.
Well said. You mention other ways of getting to the same destination. I did a quick check on shipping a yacht and it can be pretty expensive. Going from the east coast of the U.S. to Europe can cost between $3,000 and $15,000 depending upon the size of your yacht (I suspect my Dufour Safari will be on the $3,000 side of things). Going from the eastern Mediterranean to someplace safe in southern Africa or the eastern Indian Ocean will likely be much more expensive. The alternative is to sail around the Cape of Good Hope/Cape Agulhas. This of course adds significant time to the travel not to mention some spots of potentially dangerous sailing. Furthermore, piracy attacks have progressed much further south and east from the Horn of Africa. This means that one may need to stay further south for much longer periods of time even when past the southern capes. Unfortunately, all of these factors add complexity, cost, time, and danger to the trip. For some, it may mean delaying a trip east until the situation is resolved. For others it may mean going to a different destination. For still others, it may mean the weather window is one of foul instead of fair weather. Good luck with your trip if you decide to go.
__________________
ArmyDaveNY is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 08-07-2012, 17:41   #22
Senior Cruiser
 
Therapy's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: W Florida
Boat: The Jon boat still, plus a 2007 SeaCat.
Posts: 6,894
Images: 4
Re: LATEST PIRATE NEWS

Quote:
Originally Posted by ArmyDaveNY View Post
Here in New York City we had a major crime problem. Finally, the police (and society) took decisive action, became proactive instead of reactive, and crime plummeted.
I agree with you but urge you to see what Malcolm Gladwell has to say about that particular point in history.

I apologize for the drift.
__________________
Who knows what is next.
Therapy is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 08-07-2012, 17:57   #23
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: New York, New York
Boat: Dufour Safari 27'
Posts: 384
Re: LATEST PIRATE NEWS

Quote:
Originally Posted by Therapy View Post
I agree with you but urge you to see what Malcolm Gladwell has to say about that particular point in history.

I apologize for the drift.
No worries on the drift. I try to compensate when plotting my course! Please send a link if you can. (speaking of drift, I like your photos. I clicked on the link thinking it might refer to what Malcom said)

Without knowing what he said, I will readily acknowledge that there are many factors that affect results of any action. Police action is but one of those. The economy, social factors, etc. are all a part of potential solutions. Often the solutions rely on actions initiated years prior to that which is being cited. Just as the piracy problem started years prior and have many reasons for it being an issue, so too may the solutions be varied. Firm action now is needed but unless the underlying reasons are addressed the problem may manifest itself in different ways and somewhere else.
__________________
ArmyDaveNY is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 08-07-2012, 18:00   #24
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: New York, New York
Boat: Dufour Safari 27'
Posts: 384
Re: LATEST PIRATE NEWS

Quote:
Originally Posted by Therapy View Post
I agree with you but urge you to see what Malcolm Gladwell has to say about that particular point in history.

I apologize for the drift.
I should also add that this is a limitation of posts. Often one makes a point but due to time and/or space leaves out other things. I recognize that live can't be summed up in a six second sound bite and apologize for any omissions.
__________________
ArmyDaveNY is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 08-07-2012, 18:18   #25
Registered User
 
muskoka's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Sai Kung, Hong Kong
Boat: FP Lavezzi 40 / Hatteras 48
Posts: 775
Re: LATEST PIRATE NEWS

Quote:
Originally Posted by ArmyDaveNY View Post
Going from the east coast of the U.S. to Europe can cost between $3,000 and $15,000 depending upon the size of your yacht (I suspect my Dufour Safari will be on the $3,000 side of things).
Realistically, you'd be better served by buying a boat in Europe and selling it when you've done your Med cruise. Kind of like what the backpackers do with VW combi's. And, as Dufour is a French boat you'd probably have your pick of some pretty nice boats over there!
__________________
muskoka is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 08-07-2012, 18:22   #26
Registered User
 
muskoka's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Sai Kung, Hong Kong
Boat: FP Lavezzi 40 / Hatteras 48
Posts: 775
Re: LATEST PIRATE NEWS

Quote:
Originally Posted by ArmyDaveNY View Post
In the Straights of Malacca piracy was a growing problem towards the end of the 90's and into the 2000's.
And now, happily, not a problem for yachties.
__________________
muskoka is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 08-07-2012, 18:38   #27
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: New York, New York
Boat: Dufour Safari 27'
Posts: 384
Re: LATEST PIRATE NEWS

Quote:
Originally Posted by muskoka View Post
And now, happily, not a problem for yachties.
That is very good to hear. Thanks for the update.
__________________
ArmyDaveNY is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 08-07-2012, 19:59   #28
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Washington, DC
Boat: Columbia 41
Posts: 522
Re: LATEST PIRATE NEWS

Strange to say but, piracy is 90% a shore side activity. That is, piracy is an economic activity that cannot survive without the active cooperation of local (quasi) governing authorities. Prisons must be found and maintained for hostages. Food must be purchased and distributed. Anchorages must by located and secured for prize ships. And at each stage, local authorities are willingly bribed to facilitate the whole scheme. This is not an insoluble problem. One only must make piracy too expensive for the local authorities. Drone strikes on the local municipal building and on the largest hillside villas will provide wondrous persuasion. And no, they are not innocent. They are part of the pirate economy. If this seems rather harsh, well, drone strikes seem to be the way things are done nowadays.
__________________
Sam Plan B is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 09-07-2012, 09:31   #29
Senior Cruiser
 
Therapy's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: W Florida
Boat: The Jon boat still, plus a 2007 SeaCat.
Posts: 6,894
Images: 4
Re: LATEST PIRATE NEWS

Quote:
Originally Posted by ArmyDaveNY View Post
No worries on the drift. I try to compensate when plotting my course! Please send a link if you can. (speaking of drift, I like your photos. I clicked on the link thinking it might refer to what Malcom said)

Without knowing what he said, I will readily acknowledge that there are many factors that affect results of any action. Police action is but one of those. The economy, social factors, etc. are all a part of potential solutions. Often the solutions rely on actions initiated years prior to that which is being cited. Just as the piracy problem started years prior and have many reasons for it being an issue, so too may the solutions be varied. Firm action now is needed but unless the underlying reasons are addressed the problem may manifest itself in different ways and somewhere else.
Agreed.
Humans are complex and sometimes pretty unpredictable.
I can't link to the book as it is his and copywrited.
Tipping Point is the one that has that essay. I think.
__________________
Who knows what is next.
Therapy is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 09-07-2012, 09:47   #30
Moderator Emeritus
 
GordMay's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Thunder Bay, Ontario - 48-29N x 89-20W
Boat: (Cruiser Living On Dirt)
Posts: 31,577
Images: 240
Re: LATEST PIRATE NEWS

“The Tipping Point” by Malcom Gladwell

Book ➥ gladwell dot com - the tipping point

Essay ➥ gladwell dot com - the tipping point
__________________

__________________
Gord May
"If you didn't have the time or money to do it right in the first place, when will you get the time/$ to fix it?"



GordMay is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 15:34.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.