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Old 13-04-2014, 15:39   #106
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Re: Last pictures of Primadonna

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Originally Posted by europaflyer View Post
In this case, not only can the vessel still be salvaged, but it is still watertight and dry, and in all appearances perfectly seaworthy. It is no different from any of our boats aground, except that the owners have been forced off the boat and deported against their will. Whether you're trying to follow the law or just being a nice person, at least leaving the boat intact - or having it towed off the reef by a passing powerboat if you have the time and money - is clearly the proper thing to do. The boat was someone's home and they were forced off it so quickly that they even left their wallet and phone. Maybe they weren't that great a couple, but they had had a hell of a time by all accounts with his pension from France being cut off and being forced on peoples charity. People got annoyed that their boat was an eyesore in their pretty harbour and bullied them out to sea. Finally, they run aground only to be deported by local authorities back to France. When someone finds their boat in a seaworthy state, they decide to strip it rather than tow it to a safe port where it could be sold or reboarded by the couple. How can we be arguing about whether this is right or wrong?!
Wow, you're not their lawyer by any chance are you?

The flipside is that many would consider them deadbeats, and inconsiderate, ungrateful and downright dishonest ones at that. And what kind of responsible sailor doesn't bother to clear into the country properly? I'm saying that they seem to be the authors of their own misfortune. Their apparent inability or unwillingness to make some arrangements for recovery also speaks volumes.

Also - people are routinely forced by financial or other misadventure to abandon their boats... usually by just walking away from them, and their fate is to be "salvaged" by the marina and other creditors and sold to recover the debts. So I don't see this abandonment as being too much different, as far as I know.

But let's just consider the situation of the boat, not the character of the owners.

So... there's this equipped, possibly seaworthy yacht that's been beached, and has been so for 3+ months. Nothing has apparently been done to secure the boat and her contents. No notice, official or otherwise.

We've learned that like most places the Bahamas has laws, a process for the handling of abandoned or derelict property.

But in reality... what's going to happen? Consider this a request for info; I don't know. I suspect that the boat will simply remain there, no-one is likely to expend the tremendous effort necessary to relaunch her and, the boat will slowly (or quickly) be stripped of anything useful or valuable.

(Unless this publicity goads the authorities or others to step up)
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Old 13-04-2014, 15:40   #107
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Re: Last pictures of Primadonna

Yeah that's what seems strange to me. Even that the local fishermen said "it has been abandoned, take anything you want..."

Who are they to give authority to anyone, and also, why has the boat been left untouched for so long? Obviously for a reason. Fishermen would have stripped that thing clean if it weren't the case. The scrap metal alone on a steel boat would bring in some dough I would imagine. Something just doesn't add up to me.

The fact that these people POSTED about it on a blog, as if bragging about it like they're going exploring ("wrecking"), is downright hilarious. I had to say I laughed at the photo of the guy posing in the salon. Was his wife like smile babe!
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Old 13-04-2014, 15:48   #108
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Re: Last pictures of Primadonna

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Yeah that's what seems strange to me. Even that the local fishermen said "it has been abandoned, take anything you want..."

Who are they to give authority to anyone, and also, why has the boat been left untouched for so long? Obviously for a reason. Fishermen would have stripped that thing clean if it weren't the case. The scrap metal alone on a steel boat would bring in some dough I would imagine. Something just doesn't add up to me.

The fact that these people POSTED about it on a blog, as if bragging about it like they're going exploring ("wrecking"), is downright hilarious. I had to say I laughed at the photo of the guy posing in the salon. Was his wife like smile babe!
Well people post photos of their crimes on facebook and video other crimes on their phones. The local fisherman thing makes me think if you walk up to someone's house and the lawn boy tells you to go in and take anything you want, does that make it ok? I'm amazed sometimes at what people seem proud of. Saw someone recently bragging they got a DUI. Another person posting that they thought they saw a deer and shot their cousin in the leg. And people talking about how they partied full well knowing their employer has not so totally random random drug tests. And while I have no problem personally with nudity, the teachers putting their nude photos on the web are a bit out of touch with the reality of the world. Of course some have managed to turn the publicity over losing their teaching job into publicity for their modeling career.
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Old 13-04-2014, 15:50   #109
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Re: Last pictures of Primadonna

BandB, yeah, I've seen all of that as well. I guess they figure there's no such thing as bad publicity.
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Old 13-04-2014, 15:59   #110
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Re: Last pictures of Primadonna

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Yeah that's what seems strange to me. Even that the local fishermen said "it has been abandoned, take anything you want..."

Who are they to give authority to anyone, and also, why has the boat been left untouched for so long? Obviously for a reason. Fishermen would have stripped that thing clean if it weren't the case. The scrap metal alone on a steel boat would bring in some dough I would imagine. Something just doesn't add up to me.

The fact that these people POSTED about it on a blog, as if bragging about it like they're going exploring ("wrecking"), is downright hilarious. I had to say I laughed at the photo of the guy posing in the salon. Was his wife like smile babe!
You're quoting (in bold) the likely self-serving thieves, the Nomadiks, not the actual "local fishermen", if there even were any.
Not hardly a reliable source, and inadmissible in any court. And everything that follows from that becomes questionable.
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Old 13-04-2014, 16:01   #111
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Re: Last pictures of Primadonna

Right. I'm surprised they didn't video tape the event, with as many photos as they took.
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Old 13-04-2014, 16:10   #112
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Re: Last pictures of Primadonna

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Us first-worlders, especially Americans it seems are too hung up on the sanctity of "property".

Gotta love the, self proclaimed, Lefty attitude.
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Old 13-04-2014, 16:17   #113
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Re: Last pictures of Primadonna

I went to bed at 1:15am after trying so hard to keep the theme nice and friendly and wake up this morning to rush off to work and it certainly didn't take long to go south.

Saltmonkey, I was tempted to put out some peanuts earlier this morning but I missed you.

My lesson from this incident, is if I come across an abandoned vessel that I can't 'salvage', then if I remove anything, don't blog about it..
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Old 13-04-2014, 16:21   #114
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Re: Last pictures of Primadonna

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Gotta love the, self proclaimed, Lefty attitude.
Skip the label. prove me wrong.

I paint myself with this brush too. We love our stuff too much.
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Old 13-04-2014, 16:24   #115
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Re: Last pictures of Primadonna

I swear, I don't understand this community sometimes! None of you read as much as you should have, otherwise all this crap about law, theft definitions, morals, and all the other bullsh*t would have been directed to a far more complex question. ALWAYS read the links, and SEARCH other sources before babbling on about nothing! I'm new here, so I check every link posted to increase my knowledge. I've got an awesome library of sailing books because of it What none of you seem to have read is this: Have You Seen Primadonna? | TownDock.net, Oriental NC Please read that aritcle before carrying on with the speculations and accusations any further. It brings to light the complexities of U.S. law in this era which certainly need some revisions regarding incidents such as this.

Did you read it? Seriously? Fine, whatever lazy sailor, I'll give you the scoop. Pat was in full legal pursuit of the Primadonna crew, trying to have them served with papers by the sheriff's department in Oriental, the papers were the "Notice of Right To Exempt Property", the 2nd step in recovery via small claims court. This is controversial because the victim won, however was unable to have them served with the necessary paperwork to continue on because they dipped out to Morehead City and beyond. Meaning he would have most likely been entitled to the property of equal or greater value from their ship, if not the whole ship, as compensation for the bad check because they had no money to repay him. Kinda changes things a bit doesn't it aye?

There's more. After reading the article, I wondered if Pat was aware of what had happened to the vessel and crew which he was obviously searching for, so I asked him. He informed me that as of a week or so ago they were still in jail in Nassau, and the French counsel had stopped seeing them. Apparently France has to agree to take them back, and also pay for their tickets home, which doesn't seem likely. I don't know who came up with that they were deported, but my source says you're wrong. So it looks like they'll be in jail for awhile And considering they weren't going to do time for this in the U.S. anyways, this is at least some form of justice.

I still believe that Nomadik's crew is quite confused on the laws of salvage, probably from their buddies that got them into "wrecking" (see their blog link in the Primadonna's last pics piece). Which should seriously be pointed out to them, because this is a foul crime indeed. Fortunately the victims of Primadonna kind of deserve it, but what if they hadn't? Pat was already aware of their blog and reflected the same views most of us have on whether it was legal or not, and he noted that, "although the laws are different in each country, they're not that different, and they took first, asked questions later." I concur.

If this really is a great community, something should be done to stop this from happening again. I'm not saying authorities, but somebody should point out that the overall census is that Nomadik's crew was out of line, and in the wrong. They should certainly be more careful of the laws... or perhaps it will be them marooned in jail on a tiny island in paradise next time, and when they're released, their boat will be the one "wrecked".

On another happy note, their dog is alive and well, living the dream life in Mayaguana with a new owner.
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Old 13-04-2014, 16:25   #116
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Re: Last pictures of Primadonna

tedsherrin SaltyMonkey likes peanuts!
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Old 13-04-2014, 16:28   #117
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Re: Last pictures of Primadonna

What does anyone think was going to happen to this boat if.left alone. not hypothetical but in actual practical reality ? . it does not sound taking these items has rendered this hull unseaworthy. so does anyone know the status of this boat presently?
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Old 13-04-2014, 16:48   #118
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Re: Last pictures of Primadonna

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What does anyone think was going to happen to this boat if.left alone. not hypothetical but in actual practical reality ?
Well, exactly. Neither the owners nor the authorities have apparently shown interest.

The CF consensus seems to be that the corpse was still kind of warm, and that stripping it isn't exactly the first response one should have when finding an abandoned boat. Not much to disagree with there.

In actual, practical, reality... this boat will continue to lie there, unwanted, and parts will gradually disappear from it.
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Old 13-04-2014, 16:56   #119
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Re: Last pictures of Primadonna

I don't think the government in the Bahamas could even be expected to deal with this boat. . hell here in South Florida local government cannot even deal with an abandoned boat. And have you ever been to Key West??
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Old 13-04-2014, 17:37   #120
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Re: Last pictures of Primadonna

Come on guys (and any gals), place nice. No need to start going down this usual nasty thread way. Be Friendly.
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