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Old 13-04-2014, 09:58   #76
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Re: Last pictures of Primadonna

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Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post
Again, whether that is the case, that is up to the legal authorities , not some seafaring thief
Perhaps, the point made that they should have re-floated to be able to claim the prize. Well, their blog should be good legal evidence, should it not?

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Nor do I beleive they committed any crime , I'm not aware they had outstanding warrants.
Yes, they did Dave. If you think they didn't that might be good too. Can you give me $300,000 for my new MonkeyBoat?

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I see you'll be stripping possessions of all those illegal Mexican migrants as well so
Bananas?
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Old 13-04-2014, 10:02   #77
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Last pictures of Primadonna

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Originally Posted by SaltyMonkey View Post
Perhaps, the point made that they should have re-floated to be able to claim the prize. Well, their blog should be good legal evidence, should it not?







Yes, they did Dave. If you think they didn't that might be good too. Can you give me $300,000 for my new MonkeyBoat?







Bananas?

They would have to seek compensation for salvaging it. Nothing on the high seas is " finders keepers" , as some Florida gold hunters discovers about doubloons a few years ago ! . Only if the owners were not in a position to compensate would there be a case to keep it. Or the receiver of wrecks in the case of a coastal wreck, could assign the property to the salvor. That would be the owner if it is technically a wreck

I am aware that they didn't repay a debt in Florida , unless that was pursed in court it isn't a crime, merely an unpaid bill. ( which is a civil matter )

Nothing justifies boarding and stealing things.

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Old 13-04-2014, 10:06   #78
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Re: Last pictures of Primadonna

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I am aware that they didn't repay a debt in Florida , unless that was pursed in court it isn't a crime, merely an unpaid bill. ( which is a civil matter )
it was. they lost. they left.

If you think they didn't that might be good too. Can you give me $300,000 for my new MonkeyBoat?
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Old 13-04-2014, 10:12   #79
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Re: Last pictures of Primadonna

The stole the stuff from this boat, shame on them.

What I wonder is that the Bahama police did nothing to secure the vessel?
They left it abandoned? Not even left a note on it?
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Old 13-04-2014, 10:15   #80
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Last pictures of Primadonna

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it was. they lost. they left.



If you think they didn't that might be good too. Can you give me $300,000 for my new MonkeyBoat?

Well, they wrote a cheque for chandlery that left pat stockwell out of pocket, he sued in the small claims court and won. I dont beleive that passes as a crime per say. It's a civil action. Bounced cheques and money recovery are very common in business

I'm not condoning what they did, I corresponded in the original thread. These were obviously people living on the very margins of society.

But nothing in any of that gives anyone the right to thieves from their vessel.

For all you know they may be returning


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Old 13-04-2014, 10:16   #81
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Re: Last pictures of Primadonna

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Originally Posted by me
Us first-worlders, especially Americans it seems are too hung up on the sanctity of "property". It seems that many of you would sooner see that wreck disintegrate intact on principle, than anyone make practical use of salvageable items, that will otherwise go to waste.
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Hey , your boats a wreck mate, just move out of the way till I steal, sorry salvage , or is it liberate , that chart plotter.
C'mon Dave, you're not usually so dramatic or off-point. There's nobody around to "move aside". No-one is bothering to assert rights or to protect the assets of that wreck. The original owners probably lack the intent, and more certainly the means, of recovering the boat or any part of it. They wouldn't be the first boaters to abandon a boat for financial reasons... most marinas have a few.

Simple question - is it "better", in all ways - practical, moral, legal - for that boat to be left to disintegrate unmolested, rather than have someone (hopefully with a genuine need) make use of otherwise lost items?

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Originally Posted by nimblemotors View Post
What I wonder is that the Bahama police did nothing to secure the vessel?

They left it abandoned? Not even left a note on it?
Exactly. As I mentioned, I suspect it's simply impractical for Bahamian authorities to protect the property rights of the rightful owners of every abandoned wreck in their jurisdiction. In practice... what will happen? What should happen?

(And knowingly kiting a bad cheque IS a crime,but hard to prove and in this case too much hassle for the authorities to seriously investigate, leaving the victim only with a civil course of action.)
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Old 13-04-2014, 10:17   #82
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Re: Last pictures of Primadonna

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The stole the stuff from this boat, shame on them.



What I wonder is that the Bahama police did nothing to secure the vessel?

They left it abandoned? Not even left a note on it?

More likely went ashore and got arrested for violating bahamas quite strict port of entry rules.

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Old 13-04-2014, 10:19   #83
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Re: Last pictures of Primadonna

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This.

I'm an urban 'salvor' (or curbsider, and in my younger days a dumpster diver). I am almost compulsive about grabbing good stuff that people have thrown out. My good wife has imposed limits on how much I have stashed...otherwise I'd be the subject of the most popular episode of 'Hoarders'.

Seeing such a boat, stocked with so much good stuff, would absolutely set me drooling. Legalities and moralities notwithstanding... no-one's apparently taken steps to protect or salvage the wreck, least of all the "owners", the Bahamian officials apparently don't care about it, and if no-one grabs that stuff, it will be ruined, lost. Aaaargh!!

In reality though, if we had come across it, my wife (whose unimpeachable morality compensates for my lack re abandoned 'stuff') would not have allowed me to do such a pillage. Her permission would probably be limited to a brief explore, and maybe the salvage of something we actually need, ie to replace something broken. The karma thing would influence me a bit too. Though I would absolutely have snagged that windsurfer.

I most certainly wouldn't have blogged it.

I guess one could still pull off some stuff, then follow Bahamian regulations for legally claiming it. In reality though, I expect that all you'd have done is save some Bahamian official the effort of removing the stuff themselves, because the hassle of pursuing the whole process will quickly dwarf the recovered value, and frankly the legal principle itself. You'd get a pittance or nothing, and some Bahamian official (or a person attending their annual auction of unclaimed stuff) gets a new windlass. It's sort of the same in North America - most small thefts are only superficially investigated, and "justice" in the majority of cases is obtained via insurance, not through finding and punishing every perpetrator.

Us first-worlders, especially Americans it seems are too hung up on the sanctity of "property". It seems that many of you would sooner see that wreck disintegrate intact on principle, than anyone make practical use of salvageable items, that will otherwise go to waste.

Anyway, the weather's nice, I'm off to our club to see if anyone's pitched some cool still-working stuff or batteries I can resurrect. The Easter Miracle

Last word - you don't own stuff, stuff owns you.

Ok so it's me and Lake here it the "it's totally cool camp" any other takers?
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Old 13-04-2014, 10:25   #84
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Re: Last pictures of Primadonna

He didn't by anything from Pat, it wasn't a check for boat parts. It was just a regular con job and Pat happens to work at the chandlery.
I also recall many of the crowd here busting nomadik's balls about having no experience and wanting to sail away with his family. He's pretty anti establishment, and that's generally ridiculed here, not really surprising. But now he's out there doing it.
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Old 13-04-2014, 10:26   #85
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Last pictures of Primadonna

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Originally Posted by Lake-Effect View Post
C'mon Dave, you're not usually so dramatic or off-point. There's nobody around to "move aside". No-one is bothering to assert rights or to protect the assets of that wreck.

Simple question - is it "better", in all ways - practical, moral, legal - for that boat to be left to disintegrate unmolested, rather than have someone (hopefully with a genuine need) make use of otherwise lost items?

I just think of all the groups , sailors shouldn't steal from sailors. Their karma will come around in time.

I shudder at the " looter" style morality here. Your argument was exactly the same as the looters put up in the recent London riots. " I was just walking by Guv, and there was this telly sitting in a smashed window and nobody was there "

For all you know, the owners could merely be sitting in a detention cell ashore. How do you know they were deported , oh wait the thieves blogs said so ....

Had they been good Samaritans they might have brought the vessel into a port or something, but rob it ..... Sheesh.

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Old 13-04-2014, 10:32   #86
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Re: Last pictures of Primadonna

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Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post
But nothing in any of that gives anyone the right to thieves from their vessel.

For all you know they may be returning
A part of me can concur your point; another part says the boat should have been tagged and protected as such by the owners or authorities if they wanted to send that message. I'm pretty confident, based on their MO, they won't return.

Still, bloggers should have followed a more conclusive course, dumpster diving ethos aside. And i DO NOT think anyone should just take their own hand on floating the boat again without authority and environmental protection.
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Old 13-04-2014, 10:35   #87
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Re: Last pictures of Primadonna

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Originally Posted by Lake-Effect View Post
Exactly. As I mentioned, I suspect it's simply impractical for Bahamian authorities to protect the property rights of the rightful owners of every abandoned wreck in their jurisdiction. In practice... what will happen? What should happen?
I don't know the details of how they were arrested, if it was on shore far from the boat, then maybe they can justify not tagging the boat.
It is hardly 'impractical' to put a 'police line do not cross' banner on the boat,
or at least a note saying the boat is evidence and not abandoned.
Imagine they come arrest you for something and leave your house front door open and your computer turned on with you logged into your bank account?

So here is another thing learned on CF, always have such a notice on your boat! THIS BOAT IS NOT ABANDONED with your contact info, if you ever travel outside the US and the police might arrest you for 6 months for having some henious crime like having cigars or beer.
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Old 13-04-2014, 10:37   #88
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Last pictures of Primadonna

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Originally Posted by SaltyMonkey View Post
A part of me can concur your point; another part says the boat should have been tagged and protected as such by the owners or authorities if they wanted to send that message. I'm pretty confident, based on their MO, they won't return.



Still, bloggers should have followed a more conclusive course, dumpster diving ethos aside. And i DO NOT think anyone should just take their own hand on floating the boat again without authority and environmental protection.

I suspect they went ashore ( the dinghy is gone) and fell foul of the authorities. Unfortunately down and outs tend to have any rights they have trampled upon by authorities a d they are rarely in a position to put up any resistance.

I very much doubt they left the boat a d decided to abandon it voluntarily.

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Old 13-04-2014, 10:43   #89
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Re: Last pictures of Primadonna

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I just think of all the groups , sailors shouldn't steal from sailors. Their karma will come around in time.

I shudder at the " looter" style morality here. Your argument was exactly the same as the looters put up in the recent London riots. " I was just walking by Guv, and there was this telly sitting in a smashed window and nobody was there "
If it's known that the boat has been there for several months, according to the locals... I guess that's the criterium I'm hanging on. I'm not saying that ANY unoccupied boat is fair game.

You didn't answer my question though I resonate most strongly with the karma argument (aka do unto others)... still, do you think it's better in every sense for everything on that boat to be left undisturbed, to be lost? Even that bitchin windsurfer?
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Old 13-04-2014, 10:57   #90
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Re: Last pictures of Primadonna

How many here didn't even read the whole blog post and are just spewing crap because that's what the do here?
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