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Old 13-04-2014, 09:05   #61
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Re: Last pictures of Primadonna

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Originally Posted by tedsherrin View Post
Kevin, feel like we're getting to know one another as this is the second time we have conversed.

'Technical', when it comes to the Law, is according to an Act, that's like legal jargon for The Law. Now technically 'the law', in the Barhamas is The Penal Code, to which piracy is section 404, now like 'robbery', to commit piracy, you got to do it to someone. Someone has to be present.

Now I'm not suggesting you can go into anyone's house 'on the sea' and pirate it, no I'm not, because the Penal Code, has a name for this crime and it's called 'stealing', not piracy..
Ted, refer here to the U.N. Law of the Sea. Part VII, Section One, Article 101. I'll post the link here.

http://www.un.org/depts/los/conventi...clos/part7.htm

While Bahamian Law does apply, most judges will give precedence to International Treaties. Particularly in a case where the vessel is foreign flagged and under foreign ownership.

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Old 13-04-2014, 09:10   #62
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Re: Last pictures of Primadonna

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Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post
My neighbour seems to be away for months, his car is next door, ( on the public street ) next time you call around, I'll mention it seems " abandoned " , sure that's fine, take the stereo.
remember i said 'practical', not 'legal'. it's a judgement call. and how you call any particular situation is a measure of your judgement. imho, good judgement increases with age....
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Old 13-04-2014, 09:10   #63
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Re: Last pictures of Primadonna

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Ted, refer here to the U.N. Law of the Sea. Part VII, Section One, Article 101. I'll post the link here.

PREAMBLE TO THE UNITED NATIONS CONVENTION ON THE LAW OF THE SEA

While Bahamian Law does apply, most judges will give precedence to International Treaties. Particularly in a case where the vessel is foreign flagged and under foreign ownership.

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This boat wasn't on the High Seas! Which your link is about (I can tell because it is called 'High Seas'. At least I didn't think so, I do recall the story that some locals come by in their canoe, sort of gives it away'.
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Old 13-04-2014, 09:11   #64
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Re: Last pictures of Primadonna

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remember i said 'practical', not 'legal'. it's a judgement call. and how you call any particular situation is a measure of your judgement. imho, good judgement increases with age....

Yes , but I don't think anyone here is condoning ,the thieving , larceny ,burglary , robbin, stealing opportunists do you ?

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Old 13-04-2014, 09:15   #65
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Re: Last pictures of Primadonna

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Originally Posted by tedsherrin View Post
This boat wasn't on the High Seas! Which your link is about (I can tell because it is called 'High Seas'. At least I didn't think so, I do recall the story that some locals come by in their canoe, sort of gives it away'.
At this point we're arguing over semantics. I believe the argument could be made that because the vessel had failed to clear customs, it would legally be considered to still be "at sea." Therefore, giving the UNCLOS treaty primacy over local law.

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Old 13-04-2014, 09:16   #66
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Re: Last pictures of Primadonna

Well my sailing friends, it's after 1 am and unfortunately I have to go to work tomorrow, damn today. So I'll bid you all a good night or day, whatever it is on your side of the world and catch u all later.
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Old 13-04-2014, 09:24   #67
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Re: Last pictures of Primadonna

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Remember salty , tolerance. Just like you're mates RH, there a personal tragedy behind that story.


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Not when you're hurting others, like stealing from a good guy in Beufort. Kid gloves off.
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Old 13-04-2014, 09:34   #68
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Re: Last pictures of Primadonna

I really think the folks who scavenged this boat thought it was ok to pick through and take what they want.i think they got the salvage laws mixed up.
I think name calling is totally out of line, they have posted here before, seem like a nice family.
Yes, it was stealing, and the stuff should be returned to owners.
Remember the be nice rule.
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Old 13-04-2014, 09:35   #69
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Re: Last pictures of Primadonna

I can see how others feel scavenging the yacht was a self serving blog post. Yes, the boat should have been stripped to pay back the guy in Beaufort.

I have no reservations that it should have been stripped. The owners were in the country illegally, had committed crimes, and were deported.
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Old 13-04-2014, 09:37   #70
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Re: Last pictures of Primadonna

They are common thieves -- nothing more nothing less. And stupid too -- kinda like the kids who do petty vandalism and post it on youtube. The law doesn't support what they did . . . if they save the boat they have a legal claim against it. Nothing gives them the right to strip a boat which they themselves state was able to be sailed back to Key West. What truly amazes me is how people will justify their misdeeds./ The most classic line: Pretty much everything is still intact . . . the dinghy and the outboard motor are missing. Yeah, like as if someone took the dingy ashore or to get help? God help you if you come across these creeps in a remote anchorage . . . seems they stripped another boat in KW.

Pathetic.
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Old 13-04-2014, 09:37   #71
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Re: Last pictures of Primadonna

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Not when you're hurting others, like stealing from a good guy in Beufort. Kid gloves off.

That's for him, the law and the alleged perpetrators. Not you or me. ( that's called a posse )

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Old 13-04-2014, 09:38   #72
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Last pictures of Primadonna

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Originally Posted by SaltyMonkey View Post
I can see how others feel scavenging the yacht was a self serving blog post. Yes, the boat should have been stripped to pay back the guy in Beaufort.

I have no reservations that it should have been stripped. The owners were in the country illegally, had committed crimes, and were deported.

Again, whether that is the case, that is up to the legal authorities , not some seafaring thief

Nor do I beleive they committed any crime , I'm not aware they had outstanding warrants.

I see you'll be stripping possessions of all those illegal Mexican migrants as well so

Oh the humanity

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Old 13-04-2014, 09:40   #73
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Re: Last pictures of Primadonna

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Again, whether that is the case, that is up to the legal authorities , not some seafaring thief
Exactly
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Old 13-04-2014, 09:46   #74
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Re: Last pictures of Primadonna

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Originally Posted by HorrorHotel
That boat has been there for several months,
This.

I'm an urban 'salvor' (or curbsider, and in my younger days a dumpster diver). I am almost compulsive about grabbing good stuff that people have thrown out. My good wife has imposed limits on how much I have stashed...otherwise I'd be the subject of the most popular episode of 'Hoarders'.

Seeing such a boat, stocked with so much good stuff, would absolutely set me drooling. Legalities and moralities notwithstanding... no-one's apparently taken steps to protect or salvage the wreck, least of all the "owners", the Bahamian officials apparently don't care about it, and if no-one grabs that stuff, it will be ruined, lost. Aaaargh!!

In reality though, if we had come across it, my wife (whose unimpeachable morality compensates for my lack re abandoned 'stuff') would not have allowed me to do such a pillage. Her permission would probably be limited to a brief explore, and maybe the salvage of something we actually need, ie to replace something broken. The karma thing would influence me a bit too. Though I would absolutely have snagged that windsurfer.

I most certainly wouldn't have blogged it.

I guess one could still pull off some stuff, then follow Bahamian regulations for legally claiming it. In reality though, I expect that all you'd have done is save some Bahamian official the effort of removing the stuff themselves, because the hassle of pursuing the whole process will quickly dwarf the recovered value, and frankly the legal principle itself. You'd get a pittance or nothing, and some Bahamian official (or a person attending their annual auction of unclaimed stuff) gets a new windlass. It's sort of the same in North America - most small thefts are only superficially investigated, and "justice" in the majority of cases is obtained via insurance, not through finding and punishing every perpetrator.

Us first-worlders, especially Americans it seems are too hung up on the sanctity of "property". It seems that many of you would sooner see that wreck disintegrate intact on principle, than anyone make practical use of salvageable items, that will otherwise go to waste.

Anyway, the weather's nice, I'm off to our club to see if anyone's pitched some cool still-working stuff or batteries I can resurrect. The Easter Miracle

Last word - you don't own stuff, stuff owns you.
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Old 13-04-2014, 09:57   #75
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Re: Last pictures of Primadonna

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Us first-worlders, especially Americans it seems are too hung up on the sanctity of "property". It seems that many of you would sooner see that wreck disintegrate intact on principle, than anyone make practical use of salvageable items, that will otherwise go to waste.
Hey , your boats a wreck mate, just move out of the way till I steal, sorry salvage , or is it liberate , that chart plotter.

Bit of a fracas here a while back, some shops got bricks lobbed through the windows, sure the sprinklers were running everything , must of been you I saw pushing out that washing machine.

To quote my hero Sir Henry at Rawlinson End (1978), " pass me m'pistol "

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