Last pictures of Primadonna

[jtsailjt]

Originally Posted by tedsherrin

Why, if your an American, do you not like the term 'yank'?
I'm not having a go at you in anyway, and I apologize if you have read some of my early posts and they offended u. It has not dawned on me that some persons in the US don't like the term. In my ignorance I thought it was a term of endearment, introduced to Australia, or rather made common by Don Lane. A bit like calling Australians, an Aussie.

I guess I'm a yank and that's what I always thought too, but then I guess I really never consciously thought about it. But lots of groups don't seem to like being called by whatever name was perfectly fine a couple of years ago and it always seems to be a moving target so sometimes it's hard to know whose sensitivities you might offend. Where will it end? Since you obviously weren't using the term with any derogatory intent, it shouldn't be taken that way.

The most extreme example of this is the "N" word in the US, which some interpret as being extremely hateful to ever utter it, and people have been ostracized and lost their jobs over using it just one time, but that same word is routinely used as part of a friendly greeting among many of those who also claim to be most offended by its use by others. It's all in the perceived intent.

[motion30]

Originally Posted by virginia boy

Actually, I don't believe this boat was salvage. It was illegally pilfered and "legally" these bloggers are culpable for the theft of property.

The "spirit" of the "law of the universe" wants to sink those miserable sociopath's boat and rob them of all they own. Just because a bunch of overfed and overpaid baby boomers fell for all that Mom, apple pie, and don't worry we're from the govt, cultural indoctrination doesn't make them moral or right. It only makes them a product of a manipulative propaganda machine and a temporary majority on CF.

Thank goodness for the newest generation who are immensely cynical and distrustful of government and police. Some things are best handled without calling for mommy (government) and I'm glad the universe has seen fit to spank those check kiting bastards.

Virginia boy.

well said

[motion30]

Are some of these moral high ground sailers the ones I see tieing up to a for profit dock after hours and then getting underway before staff arrives. there by stealing the value of an nights rent? I guess not as that never happens.

[Red Sky]

Originally Posted by motion30

Are some of these moral high ground sailers the ones I see tieing up to a for profit dock after hours and then getting underway before staff arrives. there by stealing the value of an nights rent? I guess not as that never happens.

:listening::crickets: Must be just you.

[BandB]

Originally Posted by motion30

Are some of these moral high ground sailers the ones I see tieing up to a for profit dock after hours and then getting underway before staff arrives. there by stealing the value of an nights rent? I guess not as that never happens.

Many things happen. But that doesn't make them right. And I can't speak for others, but I've never done that. I'm also one who if I'm undercharged, I correct the person just as I would if I was overcharged.

I've thought of the question before of whether there was any situation that would ever make me steal. The one I come up with is if I had young kids, had tried everything possible and still didn't have any food for them, no milk for the baby, then I would steal food after exhausting every other way.

But there are millions of people better than me, more moral and ethical even. I don't see anything special or unique about morality and ethics and honesty and integrity. I find myself a bit shocked that they would be considered rare or that they'd be mocked. Guess I was taught starting when I was a young child and didn't think much of it as being different from anyone else.

As to the example you give above we did once arrive and leave a marina not open. Waited until well after it was supposed to open. We slid a note under the door with our phone number asking to be called so we could give our card information and pay. We were called. Turned out the owner had a family emergency. But he told us there would be no charge. We argued a moment but gave up and said we'd see him next time through. Oh and we did nothing unique. The boat beside us did the same thing. The other boats there on the small dock had paid the day before.

[motion30]

My point is. ....it is easy to judge sitting in the cheap seats.

[Red Sky]

Originally Posted by BandB

Many things happen. But that doesn't make them right. And I can't speak for others, but I've never done that. I'm also one who if I'm undercharged, I correct the person just as I would if I was overcharged.



But there are millions of people better than me, more moral and ethical even. I don't see anything special or unique about morality and ethics and honesty and integrity. I find myself a bit shocked that they would be considered rare or that they'd be mocked. Guess I was taught starting when I was a young child and didn't think much of it as being different from anyone else.

+1. When being moral is something to scoff at we're in trouble.

[Red Sky]

Originally Posted by motion30

My point is. ....it is easy to judge sitting in the cheap seats.

It's even easier to judge when you have 50+ years of experience seeing both sides. It's not complicated, a thief is a thief.

[BandB]

Originally Posted by motion30

My point is. ....it is easy to judge sitting in the cheap seats.

Yes, and very easy when they blog and show photos and you can judge from their own words and actions. Had I just heard a rumor some person was aboard the boat checking it out, I couldn't have had the information to form an opinion. They helped make the cheap seats a very good viewing section. Had they not done so none of us would have ever heard of them or known about the incident.

It's a bit like the employee who posts a photo on facebook of themselves smoking weed on Saturday night and then is surprised their number gets called Monday morning for a drug test.

[socaldmax]

Originally Posted by motion30

My point is. ....it is easy to judge sitting in the cheap seats.

many of us aren't sitting in the cheap seats. We open doors for others, put shopping carts back, use the internet and drive over 100 mi to find the owner of a lost dog, we return lost jewelry to the rightful owner, we never appropriate anything we didn't pay for or was given to us by the original owner. We never steal anything so we don't make elaborate excuses to try to justify our behavior. I'd like to think there are a lot of us left in this world.


As a child, I was told, "Be careful of the friends you keep. Letting liars, thieves, people of questionable character hang out with you will make you guilty by association. In addition, you can never trust people like that, they'll lie and steal from you as well."

I've got well over 50 yrs of following that advice, and every time I see people boasting about their broken moral compass, I feel pity for them. Every time I hear someone claim that others are no better than them as some sort of excuse for their behavior, I feel pity for them. They're never going to feel free of the shame of their actions. Most of all, I'm glad I'm not one of them.

Maybe if you feel that someone is looking down on you from a higher moral ground or the cheap seats, it's an indication that you know you're occupying the low moral ground.

[Kevin84]

Originally Posted by socaldmax

many of us aren't sitting in the cheap seats. We open doors for others, put shopping carts back, use the internet and drive over 100 mi to find the owner of a lost dog, we return lost jewelry to the rightful owner, we never appropriate anything we didn't pay for or was given to us by the original owner. We never steal anything so we don't make elaborate excuses to try to justify our behavior. I'd like to think there are a lot of us left in this world.


As a child, I was told, "Be careful of the friends you keep. Letting liars, thieves, people of questionable character hang out with you will make you guilty by association. In addition, you can never trust people like that, they'll lie and steal from you as well."

I've got well over 50 yrs of following that advice, and every time I see people boasting about their broken moral compass, I feel pity for them. Every time I hear someone claim that others are no better than them as some sort of excuse for their behavior, I feel pity for them. They're never going to feel free of the shame of their actions. Most of all, I'm glad I'm not one of them.

Maybe if you feel that someone is looking down on you from a higher moral ground or the cheap seats, it's an indication that you know you're occupying the low moral ground.

Well said!

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app

[Red Sky]

Originally Posted by socaldmax

many of us aren't sitting in the cheap seats. We open doors for others, put shopping carts back, use the internet and drive over 100 mi to find the owner of a lost dog, we return lost jewelry to the rightful owner, we never appropriate anything we didn't pay for or was given to us by the original owner. We never steal anything so we don't make elaborate excuses to try to justify our behavior. I'd like to think there are a lot of us left in this world.





As a child, I was told, "Be careful of the friends you keep. Letting liars, thieves, people of questionable character hang out with you will make you guilty by association. In addition, you can never trust people like that, they'll lie and steal from you as well."



I've got well over 50 yrs of following that advice, and every time I see people boasting about their broken moral compass, I feel pity for them. Every time I hear someone claim that others are no better than them as some sort of excuse for their behavior, I feel pity for them. They're never going to feel free of the shame of their actions. Most of all, I'm glad I'm not one of them.



Maybe if you feel that someone is looking down on you from a higher moral ground or the cheap seats, it's an indication that you know you're occupying the low moral ground.

socaldmax, Your eloquence is breathtaking, there's nothing more to say. I raise a toast in your honor sir.

[oceannavigator]

Not to mention the spiritual complications, if anyone has any shed of spirituality.

There is no worse place to screw people over from than a boat, where luck plays a large role in your very survival.

I'm always on my double best behavior when living on boats, knowing a large part of what keeps me alive is just luck.

Screw enough people over and your luck eventually runs out.

Karma.

[Tripod]

Originally Posted by socaldmax

many of us aren't sitting in the cheap seats. We open doors for others, put shopping carts back, use the internet and drive over 100 mi to find the owner of a lost dog, we return lost jewelry to the rightful owner, we never appropriate anything we didn't pay for or was given to us by the original owner. We never steal anything so we don't make elaborate excuses to try to justify our behavior. I'd like to think there are a lot of us left in this world.

As a child, I was told, "Be careful of the friends you keep. Letting liars, thieves, people of questionable character hang out with you will make you guilty by association. In addition, you can never trust people like that, they'll lie and steal from you as well."

I've got well over 50 yrs of following that advice, and every time I see people boasting about their broken moral compass, I feel pity for them. Every time I hear someone claim that others are no better than them as some sort of excuse for their behavior, I feel pity for them. They're never going to feel free of the shame of their actions. Most of all, I'm glad I'm not one of them.

Maybe if you feel that someone is looking down on you from a higher moral ground or the cheap seats, it's an indication that you know you're occupying the low moral ground.

+1 I was raised the same way and these values have served me well.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

By the way the definition of robbery from Bahamas penal code

" “robbery” is stealing accompanied with actual vio- lence, or threats of violence to any person or property, used with intent to extort the property stolen, or to prevent or overcome resistance to its being stolen;"

http://laws.bahamas.gov.bs/cms/image...enalCode_1.pdf

Notice the term , " to any person or property "

Robbery is theft with violence. I know , my house was " robbed" , because they , the thieves , forced their way in, in court they were charged with robbery

I wasn't at home.

Break into a yacht and steal something = robbery! walk in and steal something = theft.

Dave

Sorry, but robbery, in the Bahamas, and elsewhere, is crime against a person, not against property. The owner or custodian of the property must be present for the crime of robbery to exist. "[U]sed with intent to extort the property stolen, or to prevent or overcome resistance to its being stolen."

The violence or threatened violence can be against some property ("I'll burn your house down if you don't open your safe"), but the violence or threat of violence must be done "with the intent to extort property, or overcome resistance", which cannot take place if there is no one there.

So breaking into a house to steal something is not robbery (not in the Bahamas and not in other common law countries); it's housebreaking (Title xiv Paragraph 361); called "breaking and entering" in some common law countries. This is a crime against property where no victim need be present. (Robbery does not necessarily occur even if the victim is present -- if the criminal breaks down the door and makes off with something of value, it's still mere housebreaking if the smashing was not directed towards making the victim acquiesce in the crime, for example, if the victim just stood there and the criminal did not threaten him.)

The dictionary definition you cited in a previous post does reflect the way some people talk (rob a house; rob a bank), but this way of talking is not legally correct. Robbery is crime against a person and a person must at least be present for it to occur*.

Stealing "anything belonging to or being on board any
ship or vessel in distress or wrecked, stranded or
cast on shore" is considered, in the Bahamas, to be "stealing in a special case", and is harshly punished -- 10 years imprisonment. Ch. 84 par. 340.

I agree with other posters that the blog posts about stripping the Prima Donna were highly distasteful. The authors are apparently utterly clueless about the legal and moral aspects of what they did. I shudder to think what they would have done if someone had told them that piracy was a traditional activity in the Bahamas -- I guess they would have gone out to buy cutlasses and pistols, thinking that this activity would make for a really cool adventure with subsequent blog posts.



* There are exotic exceptions, which don't change the point - criminal with a remote control bomb; victim on the phone with a remote control lock; etc.