Lagoon 380 - Post-Charter Review

[Dragon Lady]

Originally Posted by JamesANGreen

I'm a cat owner, but nothing compares to sailing a mono in a beam reach in a good breeze, leaning out on the rail. Except maybe a Hobie Cat with a hull out of the water. In my opinion, there are three factors you need in order to get a great sailing cat. Weight (light), length (long), bridgedeck clearance (high, but with minimal windage which is clearly the opposite). I am in the process of buying a 1991 Lagoon 55 which I believe has these qualities. Most modern cruising cats do not and I think the sailing experience is nicely summed up in the initial post.

Are we talking about cruising or racing boats.
Horses for courses I say, that's why I'm keeping my Etchells (mono) for racing, but for cruising with comort and a view I think the Cat will be my choice, but each to their own that's what makes the world go round.

[meyermm]

Originally Posted by sigmasailor

When I started this topic I had no idea what would happen.
Why do users of this forum keep comparing apples and oranges?

As a monohull sailor (owner) I had the opportunity to try a multi and was pleasantly surprised by the comfort and volume. Less so by the motion in the ocean when sailing.

No matter what users are trying to compare it is irrelevant. Mono's and multi's have their pro's and con's and I believe everybody should make their own choice. If I have the opportunity to charter a multi again (quite expensive for two) I definitely will grab that opportunity.

Why was it so expensive?

[downunder]

My guess per person daily cost . often see charter adds based on per person rather than vessel per day.

With 6 or eight in a party the daily cost is one third or a quarter rather than with 2.

[downunder]

The October 2009 issue of the Cruising helmsmen featured as "mono versus multi" an an article called "Double Vision" discussed earlier in this thread of which most likely has only been read by aussie participants.

The only issue the writer Della seems to had with the vessel was with the bridge deck pounding into seas and bed headroom not issues on all cats. She loved the space, the equipt, beaching ability, boarding, privacy, downwind it was magic and as a fishing platform it was brilliant.

She said it was an endeavour 42 built in Cape Town SA ??

It looked more like a Dean to me. endeavour cats are USA built??

[sigmasailor]

Originally Posted by meyermm

Why was it so expensive?

Simple; look at the rates charter co's charge. A 38 foot cat sleeps 8/10 just like a 50/55 ft mono. We are just 2 and normally charter (an also too big) 39 mono. I guess you pay per bed more or less. Whow, maybe that's where we can compare cats and mono's (as charter boats that is)?

[meyermm]

Originally Posted by downunder

Find attached PDF files of the Cruising helmsmen article from the October 2009 issue featured as "mono versus multi" in an article called "Double Vision" discussed earlier in this thread of wich most likely has only been read by aussie participants.

The only issue the writer Della seems to had with the vessel was with the bridge deck pounding into seas and bed headroom not issues on all cats. She loved the space, the equipt, beaching ability, boarding, privacy, downwind it was magic and as a fishing platform it was brilliant.

She said it was an endeavour 42 built in Cape Town SA ??

It looked more like a Dean to me. endeavour cats are USA built??

I think there were a few other issues like the bolts shearing holding the table in place?
Why is it whenever something is not right on a cat it seems to be a case of "oh that is the wrong model, make or builder" just something that seems to be used regularly. As for the price when bareboating I am sure berthing does come into it but the purchase price needs to be recouped so this also has a large bearing as most chartered cats I see do not have large crews aboard.

[imagine2frolic]

Originally Posted by downunder

Find attached PDF files of the Cruising helmsmen article from the October 2009 issue featured as "mono versus multi" in an article called "Double Vision" discussed earlier in this thread of wich most likely has only been read by aussie participants.

The only issue the writer Della seems to had with the vessel was with the bridge deck pounding into seas and bed headroom not issues on all cats. She loved the space, the equipt, beaching ability, boarding, privacy, downwind it was magic and as a fishing platform it was brilliant.

She said it was an endeavour 42 built in Cape Town SA ??

It looked more like a Dean to me. endeavour cats are USA built??

Good article, and once again it points out it's all about compromises. Even when you make a choice of which mono to choose. You will be making compromises..........i2f

[SailFastTri]

Originally Posted by bayview

Ok, we've made comparisons based on cost and interior space.

Is it time yet to make our comparisons based on similar windward performance?

Would be happy to compare windward performance of my cruising tri against any cruising monohull.

Windward performance isn't about mono vs. cat or tri -- it has everything to do with keel/centerboard and sail configuration.

You'll find the cats built for the charter trade with low-aspect fixed keels and outboard sheet placement and self-tacking jibs don't do as well to windward. Only logical. However there are many cats and tris with deeper centerboards and daggerboards, and performance sail configurations with barberhaul sheet controls that will do as well to windward as any monohull (or better) -- and will point just as high in apparent wind.

[Tropic Cat]

Originally Posted by imagine2frolic

Good article, and once again it points out it's all about compromises. Even when you make a choice of which mono to choose. You will be making compromises..........i2f

where's the article, I can't seem to locate the post?

[Ex-Calif]

Sorry for the confusion - the referenced post has been removed due to copywright issues.

Sorry for the inconvenience.

[44'cruisingcat]

Originally Posted by meyermm

I think there were a few other issues like the bolts shearing holding the table in place?
Why is it whenever something is not right on a cat it seems to be a case of "oh that is the wrong model, make or builder" just something that seems to be used regularly.

Because not all catamaran designs are the same. Some have totally inadequate bridgedeck clearance, some have adequate, some are excellent.

The article states that the bridgedeck clearance was low.

The trampolines were made of webbing, which doesn't drain as well as netting. Combine these with low bridgedeck clearance, and you can have the kind of problems mentioned in the article.

These are well known design issues, which many boats simply do not have.

[downunder]

I think in effort of being succent that low bridgdeck clearance actually explained the table bolts shearing off as well as a plate of food landing in her face as distinct to sliding off the table on to floor in her mono she mentioned.

As 44' crusing cat explained a well known design issue of older cat designs with low bridgedeck clearance.

All vessels have compromises as suggested by i2f and one of the advantages in this age of technology is we have the opportunity to be more informed when researching potential vessel purchases whether mono or catamaran.

Criticisms are as valuable as praise and I think discussion from differing viewpoints can be usefull otherwise in Australia we would all be driving Holden Commodores cars which thesedays have too low bridgedeck clearance to drive off bitumen.

[meyermm]

Originally Posted by downunder

Criticisms are as valuable as praise and I think discussion from differing viewpoints can be usefull otherwise in Australia we would all be driving Holden Commodores cars which thesedays have too low bridgedeck clearance to drive off bitumen.

Also an inability to listen to other opinions without comments like "pass the popcorn" doesnt help with a discussion. I am willing to admit I could be totally wrong on all counts but I want some valid reasons not obvious sales pitch from a retailer or owner reciting that pitch. That is why I see red as soon as I hear the (mono sinking/keels falling off speel) which sometimes sounds like it is on the cover of every Cat, owners manual.

[nettlesbe]

pass the popcorn

I think you misunderstand the meaning of this.

Unless I'm mistaken, this phrase is simply used to mean something like "here we go again - sit back and watch the show". Merely predicting it would be a busy thread. I really don't think any insult was intended.

[Dragon Lady]

Maybe it's time for everybody to take a few deep breaths and put some objectivity back into this great thread.
Monohulls, catamarans and trimarans are now all proven designs with pros and cons.
There are a lot of variations in these designs and they are still, after all these years evolving.
The issue that really muddies the water is that IMHO 95% of boats in the world are either poorly designed, poorly built, in a dilapidated state or all three.
Understandably few of us want to admit that our pride and joy falls into any of those categories.
Modern standards like ISO 9001 are starting to address the design and build quality issues but they will never prevent poor maintenance and operator error.
At the end of the day there are some excellent boats out there in all three design categories but a lot of dogs.
Judge and choose the best design and model for your needs and you will never have to argue that your boat is best because you know it is.