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Old 09-04-2010, 08:39   #61
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Originally Posted by ImaginaryNumber View Post
What should a newbie to trimarans know about their limitations in serious heavy weather?
  1. Avoid it!
  2. Reef early, reef for the gusts.
  3. If overpowered in a reach, run off rather than rounding up.
That's the most essential .. the rest is details particular to boat, crew and conditions.

This is very important stuff. Just to shed more light on #3 -- see this link Multihull Capsize Due to Lack of Experience
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Old 09-04-2010, 09:06   #62
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[QUOTE=yeloya;434036]
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Originally Posted by sigmasailor View Post
The manufacturer states in his manual to put the first reef in the main at 25 knots en the second at 30 knots.
My limits for Athena or Belize, 22-25 kn (apparent), get ready, 25-28 kn first reef, 35 kn 2. reef, 42-45 3.reef, no head sail..
For Orana, I can afford to go for 2-3 knts more than the above limits in every step..
FWIW, I put in #1 reef @22 kts / furl genoa 1/3rd; #2 reef @ 30 kts / furl genoa 1/2; #3 reef @ 35 kts / furl genoa 2/3. No particular reason for choosing these figures apart from how the Indoors is scowling at me. Also, VERY IMPORTANT, remember on a multihull to reef according to the gust speed NOT average wind speed.

Sorry if my post is contributing to leading the thread OFF TOPIC.
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Old 09-04-2010, 09:29   #63
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My monohull cost 26K, has over 6' standing headroom through out, can go through seas with no under deck slamming and gets me out cruising the islands. When I find a cat that meets those criteria, I'll buy it in a heartbeat.
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Old 09-04-2010, 11:44   #64
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Why would you want a cat, since you have the perfect boat already?
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Old 09-04-2010, 12:05   #65
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Why would you want a cat, since you have the perfect boat already?
It gets me out there which is the important thing, but there are many reasons I'd prefer a cat for my Bahamas cruising:

1. Lower draft allowing me more flexibility to explore, get more protection and enter and exit channels at times other than HW.

2. I find it easier accomplish most things such as cooking with less heeling.

3. I'd enjoy more berths offering more privacy spread out at the ends of each hull.

4.. View from inside the salon

5. Lack of companionway steps

6. Davits between the hulls

7. Easier to swim and snorkel from the boat.

These things would all be closer to perfect, but not at the cost of a boat that costs 5 times as much.
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Old 10-04-2010, 04:32   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SailFastTri View Post
  1. Avoid it!
  2. Reef early, reef for the gusts.
  3. If overpowered in a reach, run off rather than rounding up.
That's the most essential .. the rest is details particular to boat, crew and conditions.

This is very important stuff. Just to shed more light on #3 -- see this link Multihull Capsize Due to Lack of Experience
How can you tell when a cat is overpowered? For me that is the scary bit; 25 knots under full rig and the Lagoon trundled along nicely (noisy also); later I found out this is considered (by some) as 'pushing the limits', this never felt like it to us (compliment to the Lagoon?). Reducing sail in similar conditions had a significant effect on speed (and 'fun'). Mono's give many clear signals when they are overpowered (and spill the wind by leaning over).
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Old 10-04-2010, 04:47   #67
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Originally Posted by sigmasailor View Post
How can you tell when a cat is overpowered? For me that is the scary bit; 25 knots under full rig and the Lagoon trundled along nicely (noisy also); later I found out this is considered (by some) as 'pushing the limits', this never felt like it to us (compliment to the Lagoon?). Reducing sail in similar conditions had a significant effect on speed (and 'fun'). Mono's give many clear signals when they are overpowered (and spill the wind by leaning over).
Trimarans also give clear feedback when they are overpowered, but don't spill the wind. I often find that when we reef we go just as fast after the reef is in, as we did when we were pressed harder -- but the ride is more comfortable.

The lack of feedback for wind pressure is one of the disadvantages of a cat, IMHO. It's there but it's too subtle for the novice. You need to know the boat well.

All designs involve trade-offs that result in pluses and minuses.
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Old 10-04-2010, 12:19   #68
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I've not been on a mono. I'm learning on a CAT. I feel safe. I know the hull speed is about 6 and a half to seven knots. When she wants to sail faster than that I'm pushing my luck and stressing the rigging. 6 to 6 and a half knots is a nice ride and nothing to gain by pushing harder. With the slim hulls of the 'faster' cats there's no hull speed. Buying new I'd like to see some indicator of 'pressure'. A tensometer on the rigging, a slipping clutch on the genoa sheet winches, something like that. Any ideas?
And why can't the mono men accept that more mono's loose their keel and sink, or just sink because they have a small hole, than cats ever flip. It's a very rare occurrence.
How many mono's are swamped from running aground on benign sand/mud banks on a falling tide? Laying on their side and failing to right as the tide returns.
But they do manoeuvre very well when docking, I do envy that. My single engine cat has a huge turning circle. So bad I might mount an outboard bow thruster.
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Old 10-04-2010, 15:44   #69
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Originally Posted by SailFastTri View Post
Trimarans also give clear feedback when they are overpowered, but don't spill the wind. I often find that when we reef we go just as fast after the reef is in, as we did when we were pressed harder -- but the ride is more comfortable.

The lack of feedback for wind pressure is one of the disadvantages of a cat, IMHO. It's there but it's too subtle for the novice. You need to know the boat well.

All designs involve trade-offs that result in pluses and minuses.
The obvious answer is that until you are familiar with the boat, you sail it conservatively.

Having said that, I've only sailed on relatively high performance cats, and knowing when to reef has never been a problem.
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Old 11-04-2010, 04:18   #70
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Having said that, I've only sailed on relatively high performance cats, and knowing when to reef has never been a problem.
OK, so what are the signs you are looking for when to reef?
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Old 11-04-2010, 14:46   #71
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On the boats I've been on, when speeds are consistently getting into the mid teens it's time to start thinking about it.

And even though cats don't heel much, they do heel a bit, and it's noticable. The windward hull may not be leaving the water, or even getting close to leaving it, but you do notice it feels lighter, doesn't feel as "planted" as the leeward hull.
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Old 11-04-2010, 15:10   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sigmasailor View Post
OK, so what are the signs you are looking for when to reef?
You are right when you say that a mono "tells" you when to reef over a cruising multihull, but here's what we look for.

Increased heel (subtle, but it's there)
Increased weather helm (for upwind sailing)
Increased speed
Increased slamming into waves that "stops" your forward motion
Burying the bows into the wave in front (downwind).

Add to that, most manufacturer's will provide some guidelines. At a minimum you want to know these so you don't damage the sail cloth (as much!).

Fair Winds,
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Old 11-04-2010, 15:26   #73
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Motion is the thing. After (about) 50 years of sailing, I experienced seasickness on a cat in the Caribbean. Conditions were very reasonable...Never on a mono, and never on a Destroyer (navy) despite hurricane conditions. Those round bottom suckers ROLL like you'd never believe.BUT I loved the vacation on the Cat. Can't have a better boat in the Caribbean.
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Old 11-04-2010, 15:40   #74
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What should a newbie to trimarans know about their limitations in serious heavy weather?
That every serious solo racer who wants to go fast and go deep, i.e. high southern latitudes, chooses one.
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Old 11-04-2010, 19:12   #75
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Uh oh, here we go. Pass the popcorn.
Why are you cat lovers so protective all the person asked was for some first hand info.
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