Lagoon 380 - Post-Charter Review

[rallyman1122]

Here is an interesting links regarding cats amd bad weather. Actually you might want to check out the entire Maxing Out site as there is a considerable amount of information regarding sailing a cat in heavy weather.

http://www.maxingout.com/captainslogarchive27.htm

[Ram]

Ive been in 40+ knots and 15+ ft seas and felt fine, In fact once I was caught out with a charter in 40 knots 20 miles off shore of Ibiza -and the folks to stay inside, enjoying having tea/ cookies - they never knew we were in some nasty stuff-because of the noise of the wind I was happy they stayed inside because i did not want them freaking out from the sound- the trick is to reef early. Ive spend lots of days & nights in 15tf seas never a problum nor worry, much more stable than my trawler

[SearenitySail]

While we are on the "tippy" subject, Garry Hoyt states (in an old Sailing World column, The Need For Speed);

The old shibboleths about catamaran capsize increasingly have a hollow ring to them. The danger of tipping over a modem cruising catamaran or tri is no greater than that of tipping over your family car, which is certainly not a prospect that anybody worries much about. Of course if you singlehand a racing cat and push it hard you are operating on the edge, just as a race car driver is. But that is not the norm, and accidents on the racetrack have little bearing on the normal use of normal designs.

He starts the column, titled Time For Respect, with


0ne of the persistently amazing things about the sailing scene is the inordinate amount of time it takes for clearly sensible ideas to penetrate into actual sailing practice. Leading in this category of stubborn resistance in the face of irrefutable performance facts are the sailing world's longstanding and deep-seated suspicions, misgivings, and prejudices about and against multihulls.



And this from a MONOHULL designer!


You can read the entire column at
http://www.2hulls.com/archive/Gen%20Article/timeresp.html



Multihull sailors, I think it might be time to abandon ship on this thread.


Actually, we won't have to because we can stay on board if we flip!


Better yet, let's just go sailing!

Marshall

[hummingway]

Flipping in a 170 mph is understandable. My concern comes from reading about people venturing into the roaring 40's and facing hugh seas and high winds, getting rolled over and coming back up again. Is it the case that cats aren't suited for that situation? Or in fact are they? 40 knots and 15 feet really isn't that much compared to what happens out there. Not far from where I moor that is more the norm then the exception in winter. So what happens if your in 30 foot seas and 60 knots and gusts are hitting 70? I don't know my vessel would do but it does have a low centre of gravity and a good righting moment which I understand to be of value in those situations.

[Ram]

Originally Posted by hummingway

Flipping in a 170 mph is understandable. My concern comes from reading about people venturing into the roaring 40's and facing hugh seas and high winds, getting rolled over and coming back up again. Is it the case that cats aren't suited for that situation? Or in fact are they? 40 knots and 15 feet really isn't that much compared to what happens out there. Not far from where I moor that is more the norm then the exception in winter. So what happens if your in 30 foot seas and 60 knots and gusts are hitting 70? I don't know my vessel would do but it does have a low centre of gravity and a good righting moment which I understand to be of value in those situations.

What I can say, ive been sailing/boating for over 40 years and have rarely been in seas that were breakin over 15-18 ft. thats not to say it wont happen,Ive just made sure when i go offshore I have the weather gods on my side- Im not crossing the Atlantic in the summer, nor heading out if the weather looks really bad, I have been caught out many times 4-5 days at sea where things pick up, but nothing that felt risky- The point is with todays weather forcasting you can avoid much of that bad weather-then ask yourself just one qustion would you rather be upsidedown in a cat floating on the surface or right side up in a monohull...on the bottom- I have a monohull and a multihull both charter boats and I prefer the multihull for just about everything

[hummingway]

Thanks Ram. I certainly wouldn't search out those sea conditions in this vessel (I might not in any vessel) I'm just trying to put together the things I've read and heard in my mind. Before I bought I heard a lot of things from mono sailors about cats that were better ignored. My questions aren't of the nature of what is better since even amongst different mono hulls what I'm learning is the design you pick should relate to what you want to do and where you want to do it. I'm just trying to understand what it is reasonable to expect from a multihull. What parameters they might fit. Largely by luck I bought a boat well designed to sail the waters where I am. As my horizons expand I may want to try something different and would like to rely less on luck and more on knowledge the next time I buy a boat. :-)

[KaveingaMax]

Whilst I don't have experience offshore in serious weather, I have been looking at this for a while as I am taking my family offshore when the kids are 6 & 8 in a couple of years. Taking the family out there makes safety the numero uno priority. I have seen debate go around a few times and get heated enough to cook the popcorn... Nice the see it civil so far. For actual experiences I really enjoyed reading the Drag Device Data Base. See drag device data base Its a compotation of actual first hand experiences in monos and multis in big weather including stuff I really hope not to see.

[hummingway]

That's a valuable resource. Thanks.

[Strygaldwir]

I have been caught in a 60 knot squall in my cat. VERY scary cause I couldn't see! I had to get a dive mask it was blowing so hard. Have since put put a windscreen, I am not sure it will help, the rain was pretty much vertical. I will, however, make it easier to breath!

I agree with the original post to a significant degree. You don't get much sense of sailing in a larger cruising cat. No healing, not the same sounds, not the same feels. (Learned to sail by race crewing on a large mono). If you want the traditional feel of a sailing, monohull. A monhull will also give you a more solid feel in choppy sea conditions. They tend to cut through the chop. The cat tends to skip above them more so and you get more agitated movement.

Cruising however in most conditions is more "comfortable" in the cat. It is a PAIN to be healed for 24 hours or more. No such worries in the cat. Take a book, a drink, put on the auto pilot, lay on the tramp and just watch the sea go by. Truly GREAT! My wife wants to get a sail board so she can feel that exhilaration of sailing, but she wouldn't trade the comforts of the cat for anything.

[hummingway]

FFLMAO - There's a picture. Sailing in a dive mask. It would make a good poster for pessimism - always be prepared!

[44'cruisingcat]

Originally Posted by hummingway

"The Annapolis Book of Seamanship" talks about "the angle of vanishing stability" with cats. Everything I've heard about cats makes them sound very attractive but this and the lack of righting moment makes me wonder.

You should investigate the numbers. Generally cats have 3 to 4 times the righting moment of similar sized monohulls.

[DWT]

I will be buying a catamaran someday, soon I hope.

The lenght is important for a good ride in rough seas so 43 - 44' is what's being looked at.
I do not plan on sailing in the roaring 40's. But if I were, most likely I would buy a monohull.
When I do jump off of the dock onto the cat it will be home for me and the wife. Comfort is important, roomyness is right up there, and being safe is all to important. Being able to sail single handedly is a must. Shoal draft I just want and the wife want the galley up.
It should not be anymore difficult then that!
I found the boat just need to collect the monies to buy it.

[44'cruisingcat]

Originally Posted by hummingway

Flipping in a 170 mph is understandable. My concern comes from reading about people venturing into the roaring 40's and facing hugh seas and high winds, getting rolled over and coming back up again. Is it the case that cats aren't suited for that situation? Or in fact are they? 40 knots and 15 feet really isn't that much compared to what happens out there. Not far from where I moor that is more the norm then the exception in winter. So what happens if your in 30 foot seas and 60 knots and gusts are hitting 70? I don't know my vessel would do but it does have a low centre of gravity and a good righting moment which I understand to be of value in those situations.

An account of some cats and mono's in heavy weather: [PUP] Multihulls in the deep blue

[hummingway]

I'm using the wrong term most likely. Re-righting moment?

It does sound like cats and in particular, newer ones, are a good safe bet. I wouldn't have thought you could be beneath decks after flipping and that was one of my concerns but it sounds like in many cases it wouldn't be a bad place to be.

[barnakiel]

If I had a cat, I would call it 'Mono'. Wonder how many neighbors would get the drift. But we have a mono, and it already has a name.

b.