Lagoon 380 - Post-Charter Review

[44'cruisingcat]

To get back to the original post, comparing the responsiveness and sailing "feel" of a cat vs a mono, I can now report on sailing my own boat (I got sails!), which is a 5 to 5 1/2 tonne, 44 foot boat with around 85 sq metres of working sailplan.

As far as feel and responsivenss go, it is FANTASTIC! Yesterday I took a neighbour who has raced skiffs for a sail, and he was very impressed with how easy to sail, and responsive it was.

In very light conditions - windspeeds around 3-4 knots we were able to sail to windward at 2 1/2 - 3 1/2 knots, and never missed a tack. Never even looked remotely like missing one. The breeze later "picked up" to 5 knots, and we hit 100% windspeed on a close reach.

Even with hydraulic steering it was easy to feel what was going on, we were never left wondering where the rudder was pointing, (something which used to happen fairly often with my old steel boat) simply because the boat was always responding to the rudders.

With more breeze we've hit 12.5 knots so far, in 14 knots TWS (reaching), and gone to windward at 30 degrees apparent at 8 knots in around 12.

I'm still learning to sail the thing (never owned a fully battened main before, and the tell-tales seem to keep flying no matter what you do) so I think we'll only get better as I learn the proper tweaks.

I'm rapt!

Gotta get some pics.

[imagine2frolic]

YEAH!, that's all good stuff......i2f

[sarafina]

It seems that the eternal debate over mono verses multi MUST go on ad infinitum. To put the discussion on more equal footing it is being moved to the General Discussion forum. Those of you who enjoy the scrum of spirited debate can get grimy over there.

Hopefully this will leave the mono and multi forums with more clear bandwidth for actual discussion about monohulls AND multihull...

As always the 'Be Nice Rule' applies!

[Joli]

NOTHING BETTER then fresh canvas!

Sounds like it's going well, have fun, you sure worked hard enough for it.

Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat

To get back to the original post, comparing the responsiveness and sailing "feel" of a cat vs a mono, I can now report on sailing my own boat (I got sails!), which is a 5 to 5 1/2 tonne, 44 foot boat with around 85 sq metres of working sailplan.

As far as feel and responsivenss go, it is FANTASTIC! Yesterday I took a neighbour who has raced skiffs for a sail, and he was very impressed with how easy to sail, and responsive it was.

In very light conditions - windspeeds around 3-4 knots we were able to sail to windward at 2 1/2 - 3 1/2 knots, and never missed a tack. Never even looked remotely like missing one. The breeze later "picked up" to 5 knots, and we hit 100% windspeed on a close reach.

Even with hydraulic steering it was easy to feel what was going on, we were never left wondering where the rudder was pointing, (something which used to happen fairly often with my old steel boat) simply because the boat was always responding to the rudders.

With more breeze we've hit 12.5 knots so far, in 14 knots TWS (reaching), and gone to windward at 30 degrees apparent at 8 knots in around 12.

I'm still learning to sail the thing (never owned a fully battened main before, and the tell-tales seem to keep flying no matter what you do) so I think we'll only get better as I learn the proper tweaks.

I'm rapt!

Gotta get some pics.

[Tropic Cat]

Thanks to the mods for moving this thread. Let's keep the multihull area an attack free zone.

[bayview]

Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat

To get back to the original post, comparing the responsiveness and sailing "feel" of a cat vs a mono, I can now report on sailing my own boat (I got sails!), which is a 5 to 5 1/2 tonne, 44 foot boat with around 85 sq metres of working sailplan.

As far as feel and responsivenss go, it is FANTASTIC! Yesterday I took a neighbour who has raced skiffs for a sail, and he was very impressed with how easy to sail, and responsive it was.

In very light conditions - windspeeds around 3-4 knots we were able to sail to windward at 2 1/2 - 3 1/2 knots, and never missed a tack. Never even looked remotely like missing one. The breeze later "picked up" to 5 knots, and we hit 100% windspeed on a close reach.

Even with hydraulic steering it was easy to feel what was going on, we were never left wondering where the rudder was pointing, (something which used to happen fairly often with my old steel boat) simply because the boat was always responding to the rudders.

With more breeze we've hit 12.5 knots so far, in 14 knots TWS (reaching), and gone to windward at 30 degrees apparent at 8 knots in around 12.

I'm still learning to sail the thing (never owned a fully battened main before, and the tell-tales seem to keep flying no matter what you do) so I think we'll only get better as I learn the proper tweaks.

I'm rapt!

Gotta get some pics.

Well done 44c. Those figures are as good if not better than the all carbon
Gunboat 48 Polars, and we all know from the race results that the Gunboat 48 can't sail to its polars. May Pete should flick M&M and go with Oram.
See
http://www.gunboat.com/48-polars.php

[Event_Horizon]

Originally Posted by sarafina

It seems that the eternal debate over mono verses multi MUST go on ad infinitum. To put the discussion on more equal footing it is being moved to the General Discussion forum. Those of you who enjoy the scrum of spirited debate can get grimy over there.

Hopefully this will leave the mono and multi forums with more clear bandwidth for actual discussion about monohulls AND multihull...

As always the 'Be Nice Rule' applies!

Shame about being nice, I was waiting for the right time to say: "Dear CAT owner, the only thing I ride that is more comfortable on its back than your CAT, is your [you get the idea]"

In all honesty I'm in the CAT camp, so it would be dishonest of me to say that anyways.

I find the argument about "feel" to be very interesting. I'm fairly sure it's already been said that if you're on a larger CAT that doesn't feel instant acceleration from a gust or fly a hull...you pretty much need to watch the instruments to find that perfect balance. I must admit that it is neat how much a mono speaks to it's captain. If something is wrong, the mono tells you because the motion gets wonky. For me that's never been something I "missed" because I've always been on CATs, but until it was brought up here I'd never considered what it'd feel like if my home didn't speak to me the way it should. I've been on some of the decent sized cruising CATs and for something to FEEL wrong (as in, I would notice below decks with headphones on) the problem would have to be nearly catastrophic (read: attacked by a breaching whale while being stuck by lightning as starboard hull liberated itself from the rest of the boat).

Do any of you out there that converted from mono to CAT feel strange for awhile...like you couldnt read your boat? or am I just over thinking this situation...

Disclaimer: Yes I exaggerated, and no...I've not been on a mono (sailboat) larger than 35ft so my experience for comparison is fairly limited.

[sigmasailor]

I have to agree with you (based on two weeks, 350 miles cat experience) at least for a somewhat heavy Lagoon 380. We never developed a real 'feel' for the cat and I noticed myself looking more at instruments, using the autopilot and following instructions (like reefing at 18 knots) than trusting my feeling. The biggest mono we sailed was a 47ft. Beneteau that gave lots more feedback to us than the Lagoon ever did (it even rounded up just like a dingy when we were a 'little' late reefing). That said; the Lagoon was a lot roomier and much more pleasant at the inevitable rolly anchorages than any mono I've had the pleasure of sailing.

[Joli]

I'm not converted but when I sail a big clunky cruising cat it feels like pushing a tennis court around, no feel, no fun, no way, ughh. I do like sailing the F tris's but they hardly qualify as a cruising boat.

I love to sail and love the ability to work a boat upwind something sorely lacking with most cruising cats and getting into a more performance oriented cat would require giving up cruising gear to get the feel I like.

Maybe something like a big Outremer, I haven't sailed one yet, but the mono gives me the load carrying capability I need, the feel I want, and passage speeds keep proving comparable.

Originally Posted by Event_Horizon

Do any of you out there that converted from mono to CAT feel strange for awhile...like you couldnt read your boat? or am I just over thinking this situation...

[Tropic Cat]

Originally Posted by Joli

I'm not converted but when I sail a big clunky cruising cat it feels like pushing a tennis court around, no feel, no fun, no way, ughh. ............passage speeds keep proving comparable.

I find myself agreeing with the last couple of posts. Cruising cats aren't about exhilaration, they're all about comfort. If I want to get the adrenaline going, I'll hop on a tender mono and save the cold beer until we're back in her slip. I will mention that cats do go to weather, not as well as some monos, yet comparable to others.

[Joli]

We all get to sail what we like which is a wonderful thing. And we get to discuss what we like or dislike about a range of boats which again is a wonderful thing.

Like every other life decision we choose based on what is best for ourselves. I don't really see this discussion as "right or wrong" or "better or worse", it's more of a generalization.

[Factor]

I'm not converted but when I sail a big clunky cruising mono it feels like pushing a tennis court around, no feel, no fun, no way, ughh. I do like sailing the F tris's but they hardly qualify as a cruising boat.

I love to sail and love the ability to work a boat upwind something sorely lacking with most cruising monos and really love that comfortable cruising point of sail, broad reaching, where I can eat up the miles and getting into a more performance oriented mono would require giving up the ability to sail with just my wife and I and I couldnt sail out of the searing tropical sun.

Maybe something like a big J boat, I haven't sailed one yet, but the cat gives me the load carrying capability I need, the feel I want, and passage speeds keep proving comparable.

[Tropic Cat]

LOL....

[Joli]

See! We do have a common point of agreement.

Originally Posted by Factor

I do like sailing the F tris's but they hardly qualify as a cruising boat.
.

[hummingway]

Tropic Cat's comment on sailing tenders is interesting. I would love to have a 420 for real sailing excitement but not for fishing or taking guests to shore etc. I often sail with my neighbor on his 37' C&C which is more exciting to sail then the Cooper 416. I'd rather cruise with the 416. It's the nature of trading off I guess.