Lagoon 380 cat vs Amel Super Maramu for tradewinds RTW

[SteveSadler]

We sailed in company on our 50' Gulfstar with a 38' cat for months, and there was no point of sail that the cat was faster. Just too much stuff on board and no light air sails. At anchor cats are the best. Trade wind short hops, cats. But long passages short handed, in the tropics where 50 kt thunder storms are common. A big mono is far safer, faster, and given the distance you're sailing chances of unexpected heavy weather is guaranteed.
The systems the S Amel has are likely installed to make round the world voyages safer and easier. Their reputation is built on open ocean sailing.

That said, I wouldn't chose either as modern boats are wider, roll, pitch, heel less, faster, roomier, safer, built better, have easier systems, (in mast furling), swim step, storage, ventilation,..... as I have found out recently after buying a Jeanneau 49DS in Croatia, for far less than $170.

I don't mean to put down cats, I would trust a 50' cat but 38' has a limit I'm not comfortable with.

[robert sailor]

Originally Posted by SteveSadler

We sailed in company on our 50' Gulfstar with a 38' cat for months, and there was no point of sail that the cat was faster. Just too much stuff on board and no light air sails. At anchor cats are the best. Trade wind short hops, cats. But long passages short handed, in the tropics where 50 kt thunder storms are common. A big mono is far safer, faster, and given the distance you're sailing chances of unexpected heavy weather is guaranteed.
The systems the S Amel has are likely installed to make round the world voyages safer and easier. Their reputation is built on open ocean sailing.

That said, I wouldn't chose either as modern boats are wider, roll, pitch, heel less, faster, roomier, safer, built better, have easier systems, (in mast furling), swim step, storage, ventilation,..... as I have found out recently after buying a Jeanneau 49DS in Croatia, for far less than $170.

I don't mean to put down cats, I would trust a 50' cat but 38' has a limit I'm not comfortable with.

Not wanting to make any disparaging remarks on your boat because it is indeed a nice boat but when you compare quality of construction and safely at sea the Amel is in a different league.

[billknny]

Originally Posted by arsenelupiga

And potential for smells in amel is higher due to age, and nature of monohull spaces (less ventilated) that may make some people seasick more often - which may turn trip into lesser experience.

I have heard some goofy arguments in the cat vs monohull debate on both sides, but this one takes the cake. Monohulls smell bad??? And cats have hairballs! Oh wait...


This is especially funny when talking about an Amel with has totally dry bilges.

[onavegador]

After two circumnavigations and also many miles sailed on monohulls the choice is not easy but regarding the intenioned crew obvious. The catamaran. Sailing around means a lot of the time ancored and your crew will like how a catamaran handles not so quiet anchorages. I sailed the Falkland Islands and the South spit of South America, the Chilenian Channels with my cat and it was, not always, but most of the time pleasant sailing. Even the Indian Ocean to Madagascar and South Africa I could sail without problems. As I sailed up the Red Sea I had to sail and did not use the engines (twice 18Hp) as my progress was better with tacking.
When I was new to catamarans people often told me she does not heel, for me in the time that was not the killing argument against monohulls as I was used to. But now I know hot comfortable it is to live on a multihull and to sail, to mention reefing the mainsail from a stable platform.
With the right Watts from Solar panels and a good Invert you do not need a Generator and problems related and you do not need an AC as it is only question of get used to the warmer climate. A reliable watermaker with four persons a board seams ok, Radar not, but without question an AIS transponder. For comunication I would think to an Iridium phone prepaid.

Good luck and fair winds
James

[hobopacket]

I am sure you have seen the videos. Just watch svdelos in some of the Indian Ocean vids in some weather. The amel is a tank. I wouldn’t be afraid of too much in that boat. If I had to choose, amel. Or a larger cat

[a64pilot]

Just me, and I don’t want to start the Cat vs Mono argument, but there is just no comparison to the build quality, toughness etc. between those two boats.
We all know which is the better built Boat and will survive storms that none of us want to be in.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by billknny

When somebody says their Lagoon or other condomararn sails "well" I always want to know exactly what that means and compared to what. There ARE catamarans that sail well, and make VMG upwind like a champ and sail off downwind well. Lagoons... not so much. (Lagoon polar speed diagrams are on the net, google them) But sailing prowess is NOT everything. If it was all our boats would look the same. For island hopping, with a large group of people aboard, I LOVE catamarans. The space and shallow draft are nice.

"Catamarans have two engines, so redundancy." Well... I'd like to watch you pull your lagoon into a dock with one engine... For anything you can do with one engine on the catamaran, I can do with my sails. So we're even. And I'd point out that having two engines means you have twice as many moving parts to break. You HAVE to have twice as many failures.
.

And each of them will have half the hours than the Amel will accumulate.. as for the BS about docking ones cat with one engine.. its a circumnav and most of the time will be on the hook.. furthermore one should be able to sail a cat alongside onto a quay if halfway decent a sailor.
While I agree on the Condos larger than the 38 I find the 38 hits a sweet spot for this Whartam Tiki fan and former owner.. I've sailed them at 11kts in a F6-7 on a beam reach with double reefed main and 2/3rd genny in the Med and run DW to the Canaries averaging 10kts with 50% genny.. good enough for me.
But hey I just deliver boats.. dont have to worry about bragging rights for either mono or cat..

[gbr]

Originally Posted by hobopacket

I am sure you have seen the videos. Just watch svdelos in some of the Indian Ocean vids in some weather. The amel is a tank. I wouldn’t be afraid of too much in that boat. If I had to choose, amel. Or a larger cat

I'm a mono, turned cat guy, but what hobo said is absolutely true. They sure hit some snotty weather in the Indian Ocean and the SM handled it like a champ.

As has been said before, for RTW the SM, for lounging around at anchor the 38.

[arsenelupiga]

Originally Posted by billknny

I have heard some goofy arguments in the cat vs monohull debate on both sides, but this one takes the cake. Monohulls smell bad??? And cats have hairballs! Oh wait...


This is especially funny when talking about an Amel with has totally dry bilges.

This was observation when we looked at several monos. I do not know Amel. Disregard, if Amel does not have this issue. Just one thing to check.

Re watertight bulkheads, one should test them. Only then one can be sure. My testing found 2 issues.

1 of the holes was not sealed by builder. This one i expected but the other was more exciting.

Bilge pump Rule 2000 failed test ! I think it is crappy design. To replicate fill bilge with bit of water. Then turn on bilge pump and continue adding water. You will notice bilge pump does not pump at all regardless of level of water. Bleeding tubes solves the issue till next lock, but this is one you dont want to worry about in panic.

So, I managed to fix both issues and now a happy seaman.

[daletournier]

Originally Posted by alansmith

I love multihull for speed and the room. Hard to get wife on mono after seeing cats. The long response from Hobie is full of a very insightful and experienced sailor.

There simply is no substitute for waterline. The other thing about smallish cats is their performance suffers the more weight you add. Those are two factors I would consider carefully. Another factor is dependent on you. How do you feel about your IQ with mechanical things? Things always break... not if they will break... but when!?!

If I was crossing oceans it would be the larger boat. If it was med or Carib it would be the cat. You can cross the ocean in a 15 foot open dingy if everything goes right. The small cat can make it also. For me the safety factor of waterline and capacity rule.

The Lagoon 38 will not be faster than a Super maramu when it comes to passage making, not even close.

[daletournier]

This isn't a cat VS mono thread, it's a SM vs Lagoon 38 around the world thread.

Both can do it, a lagoon 38 crossed the Indian ocean with me this year as well as several SM. For me the SM is a bigger, stronger, faster ocean passage maker than the Lagoon.

If it was a bigger cat I'd have a different opinion (depending on the cat).

I've got a 37 ft cat travelling with me at the moment, it's very low in the water due to all the gears it's carrying as a liveaboard crossing oceans boat.

It's a size thing for me rather than a mono cat thing.

[alansmith]

Daletournier, agree 100% with u about that. Don't know how that was imparted. I had a F31 and much larger boats couldn't come close to my speed. In light air beating in 5-7 knots of wind I would do wind speed. That is what I meant when I was talking multihull speed. But F31 weighs nothing and nothing to drag through the water.

The cat 38 footer wouldn't stand a chance against a SM.

[Pizzazz]

As the OP said, it will be down to personal preference. The SM is a proper ship and will be great for such a journey. The benefit of the the L380 for me will be the typical cat benefits: great view, less heeling, low draft. I think the resale will be there for both boats but the L380 will sell faster as it is a more general purpose design. Good luck.

[robert sailor]

Personally I'd take the SM and never look back. There's really no comparison in build quality, speed and safely at sea.I like the L38, it's a lot of boat for it's size and it's one of the better sailors that Lagoon has produced, it would depend on your lifestyle. Most of the Cats we cruise with here and there are really loaded up with almost everything you could imagine and performance suffers...The old saying of how do you turn your cat into a dog?? Just load it up. If you sailed to a more minimalist style and kept the boat light then it should be a fine performer offshore and might be fun to circumnavigate on.

[geoleo]

Originally Posted by alansmith

I love multihull for speed and the room. Hard to get wife on mono after seeing cats. The long response from Hobie is full of a very insightful and experienced sailor.

There simply is no substitute for waterline. The other thing about smallish cats is their performance suffers the more weight you add. Those are two factors I would consider carefully. Another factor is dependent on you. How do you feel about your IQ with mechanical things? Things always break... not if they will break... but when!?!

If I was crossing oceans it would be the larger boat. If it was med or Carib it would be the cat. You can cross the ocean in a 15 foot open dingy if everything goes right. The small cat can make it also. For me the safety factor of waterline and capacity rule.

Yes Waterline is all and here the difference is vast!