Ketch Sailing for Beginners

[Steve1944]

Originally Posted by Jim Holland

Next: there's a dead eye cable that's fixed at the top of the mast and extends way past the end of the boom. No idea where this connects. Also, perhaps the fix to that problem, there's a turnbuckle on the front of the mizzen mast. Don't know what that supports.


There's a halyard-- rope -- block attached at the top front of the mizzen mast. ??

The cable from the top of the main mast could be a triatic stay which attaches to the top of the mizzen mast.

The halyard on the front of the mizzen might be for a mizzen staysail.

Yes. That's it.


I connected, during this busy season, with the local rigger. The puzzle was the triadic stay, there is a hemp line with two shanks that is the double halyard for the main/mizzen staysail; which is one of the sails that was included. There are two spinnakers, one an asymmetrical half spinnaker.


But, still puzzled over the head rigging with two stays with two halyards for staysails. It looks like rigging for three headsails, a jib and two staysails. Curious.

[Steve1944]

Originally Posted by Jim Holland

Next: there's a dead eye cable that's fixed at the top of the mast and extends way past the end of the boom. No idea where this connects. Also, perhaps the fix to that problem, there's a turnbuckle on the front of the mizzen mast. Don't know what that supports.


There's a halyard-- rope -- block attached at the top front of the mizzen mast. ??

The cable from the top of the main mast could be a triatic stay which attaches to the top of the mizzen mast.

The halyard on the front of the mizzen might be for a mizzen staysail.

Yes. The halyard with two shackles is for the m/m staysail. One shackle for starboard tac and the other for port tac. Clever.


Yes again. The dead eye is for the trimatic stay with the turnbuckle on the mizzen mast as the stay comes down that mast from the top of the main mast.


Ingomar
John Alden cutter modified ketch

[Steve1944]

How do I add a picture of my ketch to my ID?

[Steve1944]

Originally Posted by S/V Alchemy

I have never heard the term "mule sail". I thought at first from the description I recognized it as a "fisherman's" or a "leg of mutton" sail. But I see it's more like an upside down "banana".

Mule sail. Yeah, the staysail between the main and the mizzen.


Ingomar
34 foot cutter modified ketch

[Scout 30]

Our last sailboat was a ketch which we sailed for about 10 years. Great rig for balancing the helm. Easing the mizzen when the wind kicks up will only get you so far. Personally I prefer to reef the mizzen or just drop it altogether when the weather helm gets bad.

[beiland]

Originally Posted by Scout 30

Our last sailboat was a ketch which we sailed for about 10 years. Great rig for balancing the helm. Easing the mizzen when the wind kicks up will only get you so far. Personally I prefer to reef the mizzen or just drop it altogether when the weather helm gets bad.

Did you ever try sailing under just jib and mizzen (no main) when the weather really kicked up?
Works particularly well if you have a staysail behind the genoa (dble headsail), Then just make it staysail and mizzen (with no main).

Easy to balance things out, ...and in real nasty conditions you can strap in the mizzen (forces you upwind), and concurrently back wind the jib (forces you off the wind). Boat will take care of itself in storm conditions like this.

[DumnMad]

Originally Posted by beiland

Did you ever try sailing under just jib and mizzen (no main) when the weather really kicked up?
Works particularly well if you have a staysail behind the genoa (dble headsail), Then just make it staysail and mizzen (with no main).

Easy to balance things out, ...and in real nasty conditions you can strap in the mizzen (forces you upwind), and concurrently back wind the jib (forces you off the wind). Boat will take care of itself in storm conditions like this.

I had a real sailor to help us across the Tasman and thats what he did in 50knots except he didn't hove-to, just kept sailing. Said he wouldn't take down the mizzen - staysail set-up even up to 60 to 70knots. Boat was heavy and comfortable and sails were not delicate.

[Scout 30]

Originally Posted by beiland

Did you ever try sailing under just jib and mizzen (no main) when the weather really kicked up?
Works particularly well if you have a staysail behind the genoa (dble headsail), Then just make it staysail and mizzen (with no main).

Easy to balance things out, ...and in real nasty conditions you can strap in the mizzen (forces you upwind), and concurrently back wind the jib (forces you off the wind). Boat will take care of itself in storm conditions like this.

Actually our ketch was a cat-ketch. I never tried to heave to with that boat but we did a few time in the sloop we owned before that. Great technique.

[Rustic Charm]

Originally Posted by beiland

Did you ever try sailing under just jib and mizzen (no main) when the weather really kicked up?
Works particularly well if you have a staysail behind the genoa (dble headsail), Then just make it staysail and mizzen (with no main).

Easy to balance things out, ...and in real nasty conditions you can strap in the mizzen (forces you upwind), and concurrently back wind the jib (forces you off the wind). Boat will take care of itself in storm conditions like this.

I'm not what you would call an experienced Ketch sailor in fact, I'm not what I'd call an experienced Ketch sailor

But I use the Mizzen now it's working properly a lot and when it get's 'bad' I put a little main sail (third reef) and Mizzen up and it seems to be really quite well balanced.

I also use the Mizzen at anchor when there's a wind. Seems to stop my boat doing donuts.

[markpierce]

I'm curious. How does one single-handed jibe a multi-masted sailboat with booms? Would seem with difficulty. (left hand for mizzen sheet, right hand for main sheet, tiller between legs to steer?}

[Greatketch33]

Originally Posted by markpierce

I'm curious. How does one single-handed jibe a multi-masted sailboat with booms? Would seem with difficulty. (left hand for mizzen sheet, right hand for main sheet, tiller between legs to steer?}

I do not have a ketch with the three sails; mizzen, main, and job, but I do sail a cat ketch with two sails; mizzen and main.

Sailing a cat ketch is easy with two sheets in the cockpit. Loose footed self tacking sails and half wishbone booms makes a tack or jibe easy.

The ketch does offer more variety in sail combinations.

GreatKetch33

[beiland]

Originally Posted by DumnMad

I had a real sailor to help us across the Tasman and thats what he did in 50knots except he didn't hove-to, just kept sailing. Said he wouldn't take down the mizzen - staysail set-up even up to 60 to 70knots. Boat was heavy and comfortable and sails were not delicate.

He might have hove-to had he just battled a rough sea for 24 hrs straight. Sometimes the crew just get tired before the vessel does..

You could actual get some shut-eye in this situation. I know, I've done it in a particularly bad storm in the Atlantic,...in an old wood ketch I once owned.

[beiland]

Now I will throw you all a curve ball.

....excerpt from
Aftmast rigs??? - Page 7 - Boat Design Forums
My own experience; I have been the owner of a few sailboats, and one of them was a ketch-rigged vessel…more specifically a staysail-cutter ketch. For a cruising boat I really liked this ketch rig. It broke my total sail area down into more manageable size sails, it lowered my overall rig height, it allowed for helm balance by ‘tweaking’ the mizzen sail, it allowed for ‘mainless’ sailing under headsail/mizzen combo, and, had it been roller furling, it would have been even easier to sail single-hand. I went thru a particularly nasty offshore storm by initially running off downwind with just the small staysail, then upon full fatigue, lying slightly upwind under a backed staysail and reefed mizzen.

from my (outdated) website:
Sail Propulsion - Revisiting a Mast-Aft Sailing Rig

Adding a mizzen sail to one of the backstays turned the boat into a ketch without the addition of another mast and its associated rigging. This increased my total available sail area on this single-masted rig. A ketch rig divides the sail area up into more manageable size sails, and it produces a rig with a lower center of effort (less overturning moment) than a sloop of the same sail area. Peter Spronk accomplished this nicely with his schooner rigged cats (but schooners require two masts). Tweaking the adjustment of the ketch's mizzen sail provides a finite adjustment to the balanced helm of the boat. Literally the boat can be made to sail without a hand touching the wheel.

Now check out the CE's of the sails on the full-sail profile view. This rig maintains it's balance under a variety of sail combinations. Shorten sail initially by just rolling up the mainstaysail, and continue smartly under the genoa & mizzen combination. Wind really coming up, furl the genoa & mizzen and unfurl the mainstaysail. Not only is the sail area reduced significantly, the height of the CE is lowered substantially and correspondingly the overturning forces; and the rig is still in balance! Storm conditions arriving, zip the heavy-weight storm trysail on over the roller-furled mainstaysail. And all this could be accomplished without ever turning the boat into the wind!!

[Markhunter1097]

Originally Posted by markpierce

I'm curious. How does one single-handed jibe a multi-masted sailboat with booms? Would seem with difficulty. (left hand for mizzen sheet, right hand for main sheet, tiller between legs to steer?}

Boom brakes, one for the mizzen and one for the main, just adjust the friction for the wind strength.
Both sails will gybe themselves perfectly, that's what I do.


Sent from my iPad using Cruisers Sailing Forum

[Snowpetrel]

Originally Posted by markpierce

I'm curious. How does one single-handed jibe a multi-masted sailboat with booms? Would seem with difficulty. (left hand for mizzen sheet, right hand for main sheet, tiller between legs to steer?}

One at a time. Sheet in the main behind the mizzen. It will gybe early due to the crossflow around the mizzen. You can use this to your advantage as it wont have much power in the wind shadow behind rhe main. This makes it much easier to sheet in, but you have to be ready for it, and snatch the slack sheet in quickly.

Once the main has gone across gybe the mizzen. It is much smaller so its easy enough to haul in with a belly full of wind. Leave the headsails until last if you are short of hands..

They can actually be harder to gybe if you drop the mizzen. Sometimes its better to reef the main and mizzen and deal with two smaller sails than one bigger one.

Other neat ketch trick is sailing with just the mizzen. They will even run downwind quite well with just an eased out mizzen. Useful sometimes for manuvering under sail. Sheet the mizzen in and she will pivot head to wind in a jiffy for picking up a mooring or anchoring.