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Old 23-03-2015, 20:59   #16
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Re: Ketch Sailing for Beginners

Bobby,

I sail a Fuji 35 ketch out of Gig Harbor. I usually set the mizzen first and then the roller head sail. Mostly out of convenience since they both are done from the cockpit. Very easy to balance the boat. Then I'll handle the main. May not be technically correct but it works for me. Very easy to single hand with roller furling headsail and mizzen.

I find the mizzen in critical; boat is noticeably unbalanced without in on most points of sail. When balanced however, little helm is necessary.

bc
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Old 25-03-2015, 17:46   #17
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Re: Ketch Sailing for Beginners

Bobby,
I sometimes have to back the mizzen a bit to push the bow around. Especially in light air.

Bob Schultheiss
Cheoy Lee Luders 36
Anacortes
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Old 25-03-2015, 19:12   #18
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Re: Ketch Sailing for Beginners

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby Wandering View Post
Hi all you Ketch-ers!

I finally successfully got my ketch to tack. New to sailing, I have driven her out and then floundered around in the wind for a little bit then drove bank in dejected.

Not yesterday. Coincidentally, I put up the mizzen first!. What a difference. It was explained to me mizzen is rudder, main is stabilizer, jib is power. So that is what I tried. I chose to douse the jib almost as soon as I deployed it. Just overwhelmed. So much going on.

Still with just the main and mizzen, the boat was balanced and easy sailing. I tacked a couple times, playing with the sheets, staying on a close reach. The conversation went a little like this...What happens when I do this? I'm. What happens when I do that? I'm, OOH NO! Ok, that's better, OH NO, again.

About an hour later, I was suddenly unable to tack. It would cross to irons and then untack. I tried a couple times and then decided if was enough. I am pretty sure it was the mizzen trim. I will try again Thursday.

Can any of you describe sail trim for a ketch and how to use the mizzen to my advantage? I still need to use the tiller to tack, yes? Where is my mizzen trim on a close reach when I begin my tack? In tight, or spilling air?

Come on you Old Salts! Bring it!

Bobby
S/V Wandering Star
Tacoma, WA


Sent from my SGH-M919 using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app
Sheet the mizzen tight when you want to tack.
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Old 16-04-2015, 13:52   #19
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Re: Ketch Sailing for Beginners

More sailing trips in the bag. Last Sunday I took my neighbor along and he has a ton of experience. We tacked, ran wing on wing. We relaxed and shot the breeze. I learned much. Actually having someone on board who has done this before made the whole trip very fun. I am getting to sail at least once a week. Admittedly, I am doing short trips around Commencement Bay, but baby steps.

How very very cool my life is, now. I give thanks often for the boat and the live aboard lifestyle I have adopted.

I am still experimenting with sails. But, The mizzen always goes up first. When running off the wind, I douse the mizzen. Lazy jacks are still not finished or installed. But, still, things are progressing.
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Old 30-10-2015, 11:47   #20
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Re: Ketch Sailing for Beginners

Well, Hi gang,

My previous post was in April. Wow, how time fly's when your having fun. There was much sailing this summer, even thought the air was light. My boat is amazing. She is so forgiving of my inexperience.

This weekend, the wind is supposed to be up some. I am very excited to try so many things that I have picked up this summer. I have a willing victim to help.

It has been a year since I moved aboard. My how life has changed.
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Old 01-11-2015, 17:29   #21
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Re: Ketch Sailing for Beginners

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby Wandering View Post
Well, Hi gang,

My previous post was in April. Wow, how time fly's when your having fun. There was much sailing this summer, even thought the air was light. My boat is amazing. She is so forgiving of my inexperience.

This weekend, the wind is supposed to be up some. I am very excited to try so many things that I have picked up this summer. I have a willing victim to help.

It has been a year since I moved aboard. My how life has changed.
Nice one Bobby.
Tell us how you're handling different wind speeds.
Mine's good with Genoa, Main & Mizzen up to 20knots then roll in the Genoa to protect the sail.
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Old 01-11-2015, 18:19   #22
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Re: Ketch Sailing for Beginners

Years ago, my diving buddy and I bought an ancient yawl for getting to Catalina and Santa Cruz. We finally figured it out; jib a little tight, mizzen a little loose, tie off the tiller, get a beer.
Recently, my wife and I got our sweet little Formosa 30. Same technique still works. (Just better beer)
Life is good.
So is two masts.
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Old 02-11-2015, 03:15   #23
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Re: Ketch sailing for beginners

Quote:
Originally Posted by psk125 View Post
Many ketches were designed when the racing rule made it advantageous to have a mizzen because it added sail area without affecting the rating. -----
I believe you're thinking of yawls, not ketches.
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Old 04-11-2015, 10:29   #24
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Re: Ketch Sailing for Beginners

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby Wandering View Post
Hi all you Ketch-ers!

I finally successfully got my ketch to tack. New to sailing, I have driven her out and then floundered around in the wind for a little bit then drove bank in dejected.

Not yesterday. Coincidentally, I put up the mizzen first!. What a difference. It was explained to me mizzen is rudder, main is stabilizer, jib is power. So that is what I tried. I chose to douse the jib almost as soon as I deployed it. Just overwhelmed. So much going on.

Still with just the main and mizzen, the boat was balanced and easy sailing. I tacked a couple times, playing with the sheets, staying on a close reach. The conversation went a little like this...What happens when I do this? I'm. What happens when I do that? I'm, OOH NO! Ok, that's better, OH NO, again.

About an hour later, I was suddenly unable to tack. It would cross to irons and then untack. I tried a couple times and then decided if was enough. I am pretty sure it was the mizzen trim. I will try again Thursday.

Can any of you describe sail trim for a ketch and how to use the mizzen to my advantage? I still need to use the tiller to tack, yes? Where is my mizzen trim on a close reach when I begin my tack? In tight, or spilling air?

Come on you Old Salts! Bring it!

Bobby
S/V Wandering Star
Tacoma, WA


Sent from my SGH-M919 using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app
You can try two tricks that Hobie 16 sailors have used: Allow the boat to gain some sternway, then use the rudder. OR push the mizzen boom in the direction you want the bow to move...
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Old 30-11-2015, 15:25   #25
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Re: Ketch Sailing for Beginners

I have been reading this thread with interest as I have just finished restoring a Tahiti ketch and have taken the first few tentative outings.
As I have never sailed a ketch before, nor a boat this size, it is going to be a steep learning curve. Needless to say I'll be eating up any tips and ideas on sailing a ketch.
To date I can confirm some of the issues that have arisen with other ketch owners.
In light winds I have found it so much easier to tack if I can back the mizzen to help kick the stern around (this is easy in our boat as the mizzen is not a large sail and the boom is within easy reach). If you have a crew member forward they should help out handling the stay s'l or jib. I have been setting a stay s'l, jib and jib topsail , but only manipulate the stay s'l.
I am intrigued by how some of you set sail to head off. I prefer small beginnings and work my way up - I usually set the stay s'l and maybe jib first to get us out of the berth (we have no motor so this is sometimes tricky and has to be done slowly), then I set the main and last the mizzen. So far this seems to work. Coming back to the berth, which incidentally I have to back into, is even more tricky. We have managed this by dropping the main early and luffing up and tying the bow up onto a large post just outside the berth. We can then organize a line onto the jetty and haul the stern in while easing off on the bow line.
Using the mizzen and stay s'l is crucial to this maneuvering as we often have the breeze blowing out of our berth.
However - there is always a however - things don't always go according to plan, or even logic. The mizzen, if set wrong, will negate any rudder and take over the control of the boat, sometimes with unfortunate end results. 3 days ago I was out sailing in ever increasing wind with only one other on board. Try as we might we could not get a tack out of her and ended up grounded on the edge of the river channel. Fortunately only pride hurt, but it was a sobering lesson or two. What was interesting in this case was that I had not yet set the mizzen, and I'm sure if it had been up I would have been able to get the tack in first time.
I look forward to any future comments on this thread as I refine my ketch techniques.
p.s. I will soon be setting up a swing mooring and do away with the headache of a difficult berth.
ketch La Flor,
Goolwa, SA
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Old 17-06-2016, 16:18   #26
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Re: Ketch Sailing for Beginners

I'm Righing
My new to me ketch and have two cable halyards with no hardware on two living ends. What do these tie onto? Do the topping lifts have no hardware for some reason?
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Old 17-06-2016, 16:20   #27
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Re: Ketch Sailing for Beginners

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby Wandering View Post
Well, Hi gang,

My previous post was in April. Wow, how time fly's when your having fun. There was much sailing this summer, even thought the air was light. My boat is amazing. She is so forgiving of my inexperience.

This weekend, the wind is supposed to be up some. I am very excited to try so many things that I have picked up this summer. I have a willing victim to help.

It has been a year since I moved aboard. My how life has changed.
There is no right way or only way. You do what leaves no loose ends.
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Old 19-06-2016, 20:14   #28
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Re: Ketch Sailing for Beginners

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Originally Posted by Steve1944 View Post
I'm Righing
My new to me ketch and have two cable halyards with no hardware on two living ends. What do these tie onto? Do the topping lifts have no hardware for some reason?
I'm not sure if you have a gaff rig? that would explain the two halyards. one should be the throat lift and the other should set up as a peak lift.

Topping lifts should end at an eye thimble, from which you set up a block that will then be used to haul up on the lift. On my set up I am using only a thimble with no block, I then run a second line that is first dead-ended to the boom, up through the thimble and then back to the boom to tie off on a cleat. This free end is what is hauled on to adjust the topping lift (s). You can have a single one or one on each side to cradle the sail as it is lowered.
Don't know if this helps.
Ron
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Old 20-06-2016, 04:02   #29
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Re: Ketch Sailing for Beginners

First, I discovered I have reel type winches and the ends of those main and mizzen main halyards thread into them. Problem solved, except no winches; so I'm seeking flat end winches 4 cm X 10 inches.


Next: there's a dead eye cable that's fixed at the top of the mast and extends way past the end of the boom. No idea where this connects. Also, perhaps the fix to that problem, there's a turnbuckle on the front of the mizzen mast. Don't know what that supports.


There's a halyard-- rope -- block attached at the top front of the mizzen mast. ??


I go into the water TODAY! 6/20/2016
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Old 02-07-2016, 18:30   #30
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Re: Ketch Sailing for Beginners

Next: there's a dead eye cable that's fixed at the top of the mast and extends way past the end of the boom. No idea where this connects. Also, perhaps the fix to that problem, there's a turnbuckle on the front of the mizzen mast. Don't know what that supports.


There's a halyard-- rope -- block attached at the top front of the mizzen mast. ??


The cable from the top of the main mast could be a triatic stay which attaches to the top of the mizzen mast.

The halyard on the front of the mizzen might be for a mizzen staysail.
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