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Old 12-03-2008, 07:13   #1
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Ketch or Sloop

Looking at getting my 1st cuiser. Have 2 in line both same desighn Endurance 37 one ketch rigg other sloop. Would like to hear about advantages/diadvanteges of doth. Will the endurance be a good choise will mostly be 1 or to when sailing.
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Old 12-03-2008, 07:25   #2
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Good solid Peter Ibold design. I'd take the sloop. Who were these built by? There are many around from home built to some Spanish company that built them in the eighties. The split rig should have less canvas to handle at one time but on a boat this size I don't think the sloop would be too much for one or two. What you should bear in mind is that a ketch makes it more difficult to hang things off the stern such as self steering or a wind generator. This in my view is one major drawback to the ketch. Guy I knew built his own out of steel, very strong cruising boat. Whichever one you choose I'm sure it'll be a great cruising boat.
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Old 12-03-2008, 07:25   #3
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The Peter Ibold designs were built in several locations so I don't know much about any paticualr boat. Given all thee boats are mostly 30 years old I think the differences between them are more about the condition of each rather than the actual design. One in not so good condition could be a money pit. Almost anything 30 years old takes a good going over with a surveyor and a calculator. I think the sloop configuration was more common.
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Old 12-03-2008, 07:29   #4
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You can always add a staysail to make it a cutter. I love my cutter rig. If you have the headsail on a furler. It's a matter of just rolling it up when the wind picks up, and you have a smaller sail in place already................
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Old 12-03-2008, 07:54   #5
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Bothe are cutter rig with 2 furller's Builded in 87 & 85 one in South Africa other not sur. Thanks for info and what hidden things can you advise me to look out for.
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Old 12-03-2008, 08:21   #6
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Quote:
what hidden things can you advise me to look out for
They of course would all be hidden

With age of these boats you really need to go over them with a skilled surveyor. Anything not updated may require it now or soon. Things updated by a previous owner may not havebeen done properly. Doing this before you take off is going to be cheaper and easier (even if it is still hard). You really need to come up with what it is really going to take to get this boat is top condition. My last boat was an 89 and the current one is a 91. They both were in good shape but still needed things done. Almost anything can have an issue but some things are easy to deal with if you know about them.

The concept of little problems leading to bigger ones is the tough thing you want to eliminate right away. One boat may have more of them than the other. You want to enter into this relationship with all items fully exposed before you fall in love.
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Old 12-03-2008, 12:39   #7
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Ketch or Sloop. Ketch has a split rig, smaller mainsail, more versatile sail options but way more rigging to watch and tend. Smaller sails are good when you are doing your own sail handling. If you lose a mast you have another.
Sails: Genoa, Staysail, Main, Mizzen Staysail, Mizzen
Sloop will point to weather a bit better, less rigging to worry about but a much larger mainsail to handle by yourself.
Sails: Genoa, Staysail, Main.
Good luck on your choice.
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Old 12-03-2008, 17:35   #8
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In the absence of any other factors (such as maintenence / refit requirements), sloop would be my choice, for what it is worth.
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Old 12-03-2008, 18:01   #9
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Ketches are a bit old fashioned in my lowliest of humbleness...


And, I dunno about you but when theres a bit of work to be done, say in a blow, or at the end of a sail, you get to do double the work of anyone on a sloop... : "Hey, reefing that main was fun! Ooops, I have another one to do!"

Finally re-sale value. Ketches are a diminishing market, when you want to upgrade you will find it more difficult to sell especially to younger people.
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Old 12-03-2008, 21:11   #10
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Ketches make sense on a BIG cruising boat:
1. To split the size of the main and make it manageable.
2. To offer additional heavy weather and downwind sailing options.
3. To reduce mast height to make it possible to get under ICW bridges!
4. To offer redundancy for instrumentation mounting and in the case of mast/rig or sail failure.

Resale value on ketches is HIGHER than for sloops in the same boat. They are also WAY better looking!
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Old 13-03-2008, 02:03   #11
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Hi, I went ketch on my Roberts 36 after a motor cycle accident left me concerned about strength and movement in my right arm about 1/3 through build program, so thought I would need smaller sail areas for ease of handling. As it was recovered strength after a couple of years, but did find the ketch rig was great and very versitile, and very easy to balance the boat. Reefing was easy with lots of options. I usuall went straight to double reef main when I needed to reef and the boat was great. Around high 20kts wind stregth I found the boat very well balance with #3 headsail and full mizzen....yep didn't put a furler on till I became house bound (spent the budget cruising I guess). I also liked the way that the boat looked like a little ship :-) . All things considered though, I do think Ketch is more suited to around 45ft and above. For a 37ft I do like the idea of a cutter rig to break up the sail plan a bit, Glenn
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Old 13-03-2008, 05:30   #12
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Am not personally familiar with those vessels, but all other factors being equal on a 37 I’d go with the sloop for simplicity’s sake – however, that would be after seeing if Glenn’s “factors” have any bearing on your situation… I’ve had both ketches and sloops and find once above about 42-43 feet and, say, 12-ton, a ketch begins to make sense, especially if having to sail solo or with an inexperienced crew – used to not be all that concerned about sails over say 400sft, but now that I’m a refugee from the geriatric ward, I’ve changed my tune (smaller) somewhat… some folks will put a staysail on a sloop (which they may call a cutter, although not totally correct in many cases…) and that would be the preferred way to bust up the sail area in the high 30-foot range for me, especially if the fore-triangle is proportionally large enough…
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Old 13-03-2008, 06:36   #13
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Split rigs are pretty but the boat size doesn't really require it. Single stickers cost less and will sail more efficiently.

Our main and jib are ~1,000 sq ft each and it seems to be about our limit, we are both very fit and have powered winches. The kites take a bit more time to set and fly, ~2,500 sq ft.
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Old 13-03-2008, 08:46   #14
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Reallly apreciate all the info thanks a lot alll.
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Old 21-03-2008, 07:19   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by camaraderie View Post
Ketches make sense on a BIG cruising boat:
1. To split the size of the main and make it manageable.
2. To offer additional heavy weather and downwind sailing options.
3. To reduce mast height to make it possible to get under ICW bridges!
4. To offer redundancy for instrumentation mounting and in the case of mast/rig or sail failure.

Resale value on ketches is HIGHER than for sloops in the same boat. They are also WAY better looking!

I agree on all points. However, I think the ketch has an advantage over the yawl in that the sail area on a yawl's mizzen is somewhat smaller than that of a ketch and therefore it’s a bit harder for the designer to balance out the forces involved.

All that being said the sloop is the most efficient of the three rigs and if you plan to race rather than cruise, your choice may have just been made for you. For a cruiser, I think the mast height on the ICW and loads in hoisting the main are very significant points.

All in all, the preponderance of sloops does not mean it’s the best rig for you. If it were, you would only eat fast food … assuming you don’t.

By the way, Ted Brewer did a nice short article which you can find here.
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