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Old 14-08-2013, 08:52   #121
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Smile Re: Keeping Watch at Night ?

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Originally Posted by boatman61 View Post
Conclusion... CHEESE IS DANGEROUS...
And yes... I do know the ColReg's...
LOL!
one thing I have learned the hard way about COLREGS, if you stick to them, you're likely to stay safe, as big a pain in the butt as they can be sometimes.
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Old 14-08-2013, 09:31   #122
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Re: Keeping Watch at Night ?

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Dear jackdale,

Lets throw in a hypothetical.

Lets assume that there are actually 3 people aboard and for dinner they had a meal of pelagic fish and it had ciguatera. We'll assume that before all of them became helpless one of them was able to heave the vessel to. All three of them are now helpless in their bunks. What lights and signals should they display?

It appears that the vessel is now not under command by way of a lack of competent crew and whilst this circumstance is not on you list it appears that it would justify signalling a "not under command" status for the vessel. If this is so the "not under command" status because the crew is too sleepy to safely work the vessel is also valid.
They have a medical emergency. They probably should be showing distress signals. Step 1 - MAYDAY Call / set off the EPIRB. Step two - dayshapes: code flags N over C, orange distress flag with ball and square. I would avoid the smoking barrel on the foredeck. Strobe lights are used in some locales (US Inland) as distress.
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Old 14-08-2013, 18:20   #123
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Re: Keeping Watch at Night ?

What scares me about the Jessica Watson incident is that the ship didn't offer any assistance. That link posted includes this bit about some collision stats

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Most concerning for the ATSB is that 20 ships did not stop following the collision, which did not happen in this instance.
That's out of 35, so the majority of the incidents they looked at. That's horrifying. Would anyone awake on the cargo ship have said anything if she hadn't made it back to shore? Makes you wonder how many times people get run down and don't make it back.
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Old 14-08-2013, 18:36   #124
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pirate Re: Keeping Watch at Night ?

Think they took a lesson from it though... most of the ships crossing the Great Oz Bight are Chinese... soon as they spotted me they altered course to give me a wide berth... night and day..
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Old 14-08-2013, 18:46   #125
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Re: Keeping Watch at Night ?

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most of the ships crossing the Great Oz Bight are Chinese...
All ships except cruise liners are manned by Chinese, Philippines, Belarusians, Indians, Pakistanis etc.
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Old 14-08-2013, 19:11   #126
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All ships except cruise liners are manned by Chinese, Philippines, Belarusians, Indians, Pakistanis etc.
LOL... well I heard only Chinese on the VHF... zero S Asian... else I'd have spoken Urdu or Hindi... and when I called one up repeatedly and got no answer I asked if they had something against Gaijins they came back pretty quick... and yes I know that's Japanese...
But it got me my weather report...
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Old 14-08-2013, 19:12   #127
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Re: Keeping Watch at Night ?

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All ships except cruise liners are manned by Chinese, Philippines, Belarusians, Indians, Pakistanis etc.
I hear a lot of Russians and ex-Soviet bloc countries.
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Old 14-08-2013, 19:16   #128
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Re: Keeping Watch at Night ?

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I just can't see that as something that works long term. We're leaving on the Pacific crossing in the spring and it just boggles my mind that anyone is going to sit there, for weeks, pulling constant shifts just staring into the ocean for hours.

No fishing, no reading, no music, no listening to podcasts... jesus man, that's just cruel.

I don't see a problem with things like mp3's. You can read a book and look up each page. It's not like you're on a crowded superhighway and you're texting. Naturally in congested areas, that's different.
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Old 14-08-2013, 19:22   #129
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Re: Keeping Watch at Night ?

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Airplanes have AIS & autopilot and they are not running into each other
I don't think that's really a fair comparison.

For starters, "see and avoid" is still the rule in aviation, when weather permits. Oddly enough, most mid-air collisions happen (and they do happen) in clear weather when pilots are still expected to see and avoid traffic.

When weather doesn't permit visual flight (part of which is see and avoid), the flight rules change and pilots are required to be in constant contact with ATC who will route flights based on traffic. Short of a few corner cases, there shouldn't be an airplane in the sky out of contact with ATC if weather conditions deteriorate to this point. The contact with ATC bit is a critical difference, because they will keep you separated from other traffic (although the regulatory burden for avoiding collisions in good wx still remains on the pilot, even if they are in contact with ATC).

While traffic systems (which vary depending on aircraft, but aren't always installed) are useful, I have only used them as a supplement, not a primary means of identifying traffic, mostly because they can be unreliable and often the display can be intimidating.

So short of instrument conditions, the regulations aren't that much different for aviation than they are for boats. When conditions don't permit, pilots have the benefit of ATC to provide separation, which boats don't have.

Also worth pointing out is that, unless you are an airline pilot, you aren't going to be flying for 10, 20, or 30 hours at a time. Most flights will last a few hours and be over, not requiring a daily allocation of sleep time. On a boat that's out to sea for 10+ days, you have to figure out how to sleep and survive.
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Old 14-08-2013, 19:22   #130
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Re: Keeping Watch at Night ?

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Why would you think words represent some sort of code in maritime law?
The words are purposely vague for everyone. That is what creates the room for debate and interpretation. That is the basis for the system.

I'm sorry, Dugout, but where did I say "code?"

"Legalease" is a different language than standard language, and each word has its purpose and meaning. Each law stands not just on its own but on the body of decisions made based on that law.

It takes a lawyer to understand laws. People love to read laws and believe they know what they mean, but often they don't.

It's the same thing in research, by the way. Without training in how research findings are written, the average person reading it is quite likely to walk away with a head full of misinformation but absolutely sure that he or she is right.
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Old 14-08-2013, 19:23   #131
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Re: Keeping Watch at Night ?

Aircraft also have a third dimension to operate on. That alone reduces the chances of collision dramatically.
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Old 14-08-2013, 19:31   #132
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Re: Keeping Watch at Night ?

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They have a medical emergency. They probably should be showing distress signals. Step 1 - MAYDAY Call / set off the EPIRB. Step two - dayshapes: code flags N over C, orange distress flag with ball and square. I would avoid the smoking barrel on the foredeck. Strobe lights are used in some locales (US Inland) as distress.
Jackdale, I wonder if hoisting the Q flag is appropriate here. My understanding is that it's not only "quarantine until practique is obtained" via inspection of one's bilges, etc., but also "warning: we may have plague or the pox aboard".

Persons boarding would do so at their own risk or perhaps in HAZMAT suits. The stricken crew might not have the means to confirm food poisoning or the experience to recognize it. They might just feel deathly ill due to "cause unknown".

In fact, I thought the yellow of the Q flag was inspired by yellow fever.

I'm also recalling something about an inverted ensign that indicates "not under command"...but it's been years since I read that.
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Old 14-08-2013, 20:01   #133
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Re: Keeping Watch at Night ?

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Jackdale, I wonder if hoisting the Q flag is appropriate here. My understanding is that it's not only "quarantine until practique is obtained" via inspection of one's bilges, etc., but also "warning: we may have plague or the pox aboard".

Persons boarding would do so at their own risk or perhaps in HAZMAT suits. The stricken crew might not have the means to confirm food poisoning or the experience to recognize it. They might just feel deathly ill due to "cause unknown".

In fact, I thought the yellow of the Q flag was inspired by yellow fever.

I'm also recalling something about an inverted ensign that indicates "not under command"...but it's been years since I read that.
Yes the Q flag would be appropriate if asking for practique after entering new waters. But that is not usually done mid-ocean.
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Old 14-08-2013, 20:03   #134
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Re: Keeping Watch at Night ?

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What scares me about the Jessica Watson incident is that the ship didn't offer any assistance...That's [20] out of 35, so the majority of the incidents they looked at. That's horrifying.
Horrifying perhaps, but quite forseeable. One might wonder whether it would be a similar proportion of incidents involving collision between a ship and a yacht where those on the ship would not even be aware of the impact.

Sitting on a (relatively) small yacht passing close to a large ship and especially at night, the mind seems to conjure up images of how utterly insignificant the yacht's mass is compared to the ship, a bit like the fly into the windscreen. Such experiences (combined with the inherent uncertainty of technological collision 'defenses') certainly make us keen to keep watch!
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Old 14-08-2013, 20:25   #135
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Re: Keeping Watch at Night ?

Big ships in the southern oceans, with all their bells and whistles,

Once free of the coast, Set their course, Set the Autopilot, The Autopilot needs to be reset when we change course in five days time,

How many people are actually on the bridge of a freighter when your going straight for a week, And in a very large ocean with nothing in it,

Shipping channels are quite clearly marked, So even the shipping is going all the same way in their respective set channels,

Too many ships and countrys in the northern Hemishere to try this out,

Southern Ocean, you can go around the world with out hitting any thing, Excluding Containers, Etc,
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