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Old 11-07-2015, 06:27   #1
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Kaiser Gale Force 34 Trim Issue

Finally got our Kaiser Gale Force 34 in the water after a frustrating round of pre-launch issues. On the first cruise from the dock a new problem arose. Under even moderate power settings (14-1600 rpms) the stern squats a full 8 inches and buries the engine exhaust port. The boat has the same engine/prop configuration (Westerbeke 44B with a Michigan Wheel fixed four blade-17 inch prop). The boat motored great last season with no issues. For this season, the boat is a bit lighter after removal of an amidship 25 gallon holding tank and removal of storm sails and gear I won't be using this summer. Pretty small change to trim on a boat with an 18,000 pound designed displacement. The boat has a long full keel with a transom hung rudder and a relatively small, protected propeller aperture. The only other change I made for this season was to install a zinc collar shaft just forward of the prop. Right now, I can't motor at speeds of over 2.5 knots without the stern sinking heavily. Any thoughts?
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Old 11-07-2015, 15:52   #2
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Re: Kaiser Gale Force 34 Trim Issue

Since you altered the trim by 300 or 400 pounds (?????) I'd advise temporarily adding that much weight in the same place forward to see what the effect is. Simple, fast, effective test.
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Old 11-07-2015, 19:27   #3
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Re: Kaiser Gale Force 34 Trim Issue

I spent an afternoon moving weight back and forth to see if I could alter the trim, all to no avail. I completely emptied out the lazarettes. At the dock, the boat sets pretty true on her lines.
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Old 11-07-2015, 20:23   #4
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Re: Kaiser Gale Force 34 Trim Issue

Slap me if this sounds silly but the boat next to mine had some similar problems. The cause was water in the bilge. One of his pumps failed. As soon as he started making headway the water would slosh aft and sink his stern. Sorry, just ruling out the obvious.

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Old 11-07-2015, 21:00   #5
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Re: Kaiser Gale Force 34 Trim Issue

That was my first thought too when I noticed the problem. I ran down below in a panic, but found the bilge was bone dry. Unfortunately, I forgot to turn the pump back to the auto setting and I thought for sure the pump was toast when I finally figured out water wasn't my problem. Kudos to Rule for building one really tough pump.
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Old 12-07-2015, 11:40   #6
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Re: Kaiser Gale Force 34 Trim Issue

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Originally Posted by holtjp View Post
Finally got our Kaiser Gale Force 34 in the water after a frustrating round of pre-launch issues. On the first cruise from the dock a new problem arose. Under even moderate power settings (14-1600 rpms) the stern squats a full 8 inches and buries the engine exhaust port. The boat has the same engine/prop configuration (Westerbeke 44B with a Michigan Wheel fixed four blade-17 inch prop). The boat motored great last season with no issues. For this season, the boat is a bit lighter after removal of an amidship 25 gallon holding tank and removal of storm sails and gear I won't be using this summer. Pretty small change to trim on a boat with an 18,000 pound designed displacement. The boat has a long full keel with a transom hung rudder and a relatively small, protected propeller aperture. The only other change I made for this season was to install a zinc collar shaft just forward of the prop. Right now, I can't motor at speeds of over 2.5 knots without the stern sinking heavily. Any thoughts?
I haven't got the slightest? I would be interested in the solution. Best of luck.
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Old 12-07-2015, 12:48   #7
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Re: Kaiser Gale Force 34 Trim Issue

Water tanks?

Really no other thing except weight placement should cause this, assuming you're at same speeds as last season (not markedly faster due to clean bottom eg)


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Old 12-07-2015, 13:12   #8
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Re: Kaiser Gale Force 34 Trim Issue

Bad memory...... :>)
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Old 12-07-2015, 15:38   #9
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Re: Kaiser Gale Force 34 Trim Issue

The water tank is molded into the hull just aft of the mast. Probably dead center on the center of gravity. Tank is baffled and has been full each time I've gone out. As for speed, I have yet to reach the cruising speeds I experienced last year. I haul out tomorrow and I am hoping something is hanging off the rudder. Not sure what else could result in such a drastic change from last year.
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Old 12-07-2015, 15:51   #10
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Re: Kaiser Gale Force 34 Trim Issue

You may have nailed it. You said first cruise from the dock. You may be towing half a trawel or longline.
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Old 12-07-2015, 19:30   #11
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Re: Kaiser Gale Force 34 Trim Issue

I am sure hoping that is the case. Running out of other options!
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Old 13-07-2015, 15:24   #12
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Re: Kaiser Gale Force 34 Trim Issue

A suggestion that has worked for us to help resolve weight and balance
problems with various boats.

Visit an orange or blue box building supply store and purchase six or eight 50 lb. bags of "Play Ground Sand." You will find it in the garden department. If there is a choice of brands, get the one with the sturdiest bag.

Place the bags of sand aboard, in the locations of the tank and gear that were removed to approximate the weight that was removed. For instance, the 20 gallon tank when full would have weighed 180 lbs approx, or four bags of sand (close enough.)

After adding the sand, take the boat out and see if the problem has been
solved.

My guess is you have a lever arm situation, as opposed to a strictly fore and aft trim situation. A few pounds in the extreme bow will counter many pounds of weight or propeller thrust at the stern. Try moving sand bags forward and see if the stern stops squatting while under power.

(If you take good care of the sand bags, the stores will accept them back for full credit. We wrapped our bags in a large beach towel when moving them around in order to prevent snagging the plastic.)

Good luck.
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Old 13-07-2015, 15:36   #13
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Re: Kaiser Gale Force 34 Trim Issue

Quote:
Originally Posted by ex-12m-guy View Post
A suggestion that has worked for us to help resolve weight and balance
problems with various boats.

Visit an orange or blue box building supply store and purchase six or eight 50 lb. bags of "Play Ground Sand." You will find it in the garden department. If there is a choice of brands, get the one with the sturdiest bag.

Place the bags of sand aboard, in the locations of the tank and gear that were removed to approximate the weight that was removed. For instance, the 20 gallon tank when full would have weighed 180 lbs approx, or four bags of sand (close enough.)

After adding the sand, take the boat out and see if the problem has been
solved.

My guess is you have a lever arm situation, as opposed to a strictly fore and aft trim situation. A few pounds in the extreme bow will counter many pounds of weight or propeller thrust at the stern. Try moving sand bags forward and see if the stern stops squatting while under power.

(If you take good care of the sand bags, the stores will accept them back for full credit. We wrapped our bags in a large beach towel when moving them around in order to prevent snagging the plastic.)

Good luck.

Good thought! But the holding tank is probably empty at times.
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Old 13-07-2015, 15:47   #14
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Re: Kaiser Gale Force 34 Trim Issue

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I am sure hoping that is the case. Running out of other options!
Is it possible you bent a blade? I would expect vibration if so. If she sits correctly in the water, at rest, I double your removing an often empty tank and some sails it the problem.
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Old 13-07-2015, 18:12   #15
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Re: Kaiser Gale Force 34 Trim Issue

My thanks to all for taking the time to hell ID the problem. I hauled out very early in the am and could find nothing obvious below the waterline. That leaves the prop (overpropped and overpowered) and trim as the only possible culprits. Ran down the Penobscot River with a fair current of almost three knots and hit GPS speeds of 6.5 to 7.5 knots. If I kept the rpms below 1400 the exhaust port was still above water, anything greater and it got buried underwater. Same was true even when out of the tidal current. Planning to leave as much G4 chain in the upper/most forward locker when I weigh anchor in the morning. I have already shifted as much gear as I can into the forward spaces. Chain is my only remaining ballast. I did previously add about 100 lbs of lead ingots in the space the holding tank formerly occupied. Will keep trying other trim options, but more and more I lean towards the prop as the culprit. Boat sits level as can be at anchor and no damage to the prop noted during the quick haul out. Engine runs smooth and the boat accelerates quickly.
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