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Old 04-08-2013, 11:39   #61
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Thanks for clearing the "barbarian" tag up Dave.

I can see your far more articulate that I am, but that's Okay.

And forgive me for being a little cautious about your beliefs about us old retired warriors. Part of me is afraid that if you had your way we would all be dropped into a active volcano, or something similar. But maybe I am mistaken, I hope so.

" but they killed and would do so again if given the opportunity" , you know this for sure , that's ok then. death penalty so gas em."

What is the answer ?
What works, or will work, when ?

And please include our efforts in diplomacy. You might not believe it counted for much that we had four Americans murdered in Benghazi , but I do. Can we get just a little credit for the Marines killed in Beirut please.

I grew up going to school, and learning to bend over under my school desk, and kiss my ass goodby on a regular basis. Watch neighbors have bomb shelters put in their back yards, my dad was a WW II Marine vet, and refused to live in fear of Russian, or anyone really.. I doubt if the brits escaped something similar. It was the big bad Russian Bear in the 50's, yada yada yada. My generation got to go kill a bunch of folks for what was no more than who was going to control the rice, and rubber production, and exportation. And I so stated in a newspaper interview.

The fear merchants have become expert at selling their wares.
IMHO until we address that issue the terrorism will continue.
Why we don't go after the Saudi's for shipping money by the boat loads to the vermin, in spite of all their frigging oil, I surly don't understand.

I personally would like to try the "Walking Tall" solution. But it would stop the BS, and who really wants that.

This **** gives me a headache...;>) Good nite Elizabeth...
Andrew. I won't for a minute run down the contribution veterans made in many wars. Individual courage etc. but warriors exist to serve the state and in doing so place their lives at risk. But the mere fact your involvement ( or others , I had grand uncles and a grand father in ww1 & 2 ) does not give them a superior or more informed view.

I am not a fan of military action, especially the recent sort of post 9/11 " send
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Old 04-08-2013, 11:43   #62
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No Dave I'm not normally for capital punishment unless they are caught red handed, which they were.and I truly feel sorry because the youth of their country and the entire population of their country is in such a desperate circumstance that easily people would be drawn to the pirate profession out of need of survival. I get and sympathize with that also.

I wish I do to expand their mind set. And then when they resort to violence? Well I understand their fear and need but can't condone it.
Well killing a few Somalis with the death penalty would hardly cause a blink of an eyebrow in Somali and would risk martyrdom. Maybe they will rehabilitate in prison , return home and extoll the benefits of the US prison system. Expect mass surrenders on Somali beaches then !!

Dave
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Old 04-08-2013, 11:57   #63
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Re: Justice for SV/Quest crew announced

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I find this thread sad and am going to consider starting a "not to have a beer with" list
I'm with you Don. This thread is sad.
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Old 04-08-2013, 12:02   #64
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I'm with you Don. This thread is sad.
This thread seems to generate several emotions , I don't see sad though.

Dave
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Old 04-08-2013, 12:18   #65
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Re: Justice for SV/Quest crew announced

Glancing through this thread, my feelings are confirmed that Americans, of which I was once proudly one by choice, don't have a clue what is going on in the real world influenced heavily if not governed by terrorist organizations. Religious zealots have taken over much of the world in the name of their particular belief. Those countries least able to survive without some kind of foreign influence and aid are most susceptible to control and governance by those who have an axe to grind or are searching for a land in which to develop homocidal/suicidal fighters. Yes, dear friends, it is happening right now in over half the world. When the inevitable reaches our shores, which it will, the response of our government, such as it then is, will be to politicize the event as an excuse to further erode freedom as us oldsters recall it. Regardless of the party who happens to be in power as these event overtake us, it will not be pretty. Personally, we have managed to get our kids and grandkids out of the country to a secure, if not remote location, self sufficient and willing to forgo many of the amenities they heretofore had access to.
I believe this inevitable turn of events is a major reason behind the desire of many to buy a boat, go cruising to distant oceans prepared to survive weather, inclement lands and perhaps hostile receptions looking for a peaceful existence for themselves.
We are of the age where it doesn't much matter to us any longer the direction the world and this country are taking. It is not of our choosing and there is little we can do about it so we revel in the memories we have, the friends we have made, particularly cruising, and peacefully await our end... cheers, Phil
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Old 04-08-2013, 12:41   #66
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Re: Justice for SV/Quest crew announced

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It went the way of child labour , prison for adult sodomy , debtors prison , low ages of consent , racial discrimination/ segregation.
.......and anti-Gay Marriage laws , Healthcare rationing by bank balance , and Gubberment by Cheeses .
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Old 04-08-2013, 14:51   #67
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Re: Justice for SV/Quest crew announced

I am going to chime in with Capt. Phil. I was delivering food containers to the military in Mogadishu in 1993, the shooting had stopped, barely, there was still the odd mortar being lobbed at the harbor. I performed my crew change there, due to a breakdown of the plane, we got to spend a little time with the UN people that were there. The story I got from them was at the time there were 2 brother warlords fighting for power, there was one mass grave near the road to the airport, that reportedly had 5,000 people in it, I don't know who was responsible for those dead people, but there was a lot of killing going on before the US forces were involved, in a struggle for power between the brothers. I also saw a huge windmill farm there that was not working due to all of the copper being stripped from the windmills. The fishing offshore was quite good, we were able to hand line a couple of fish every night. Really doesn't matter whose bullet kills you, you are just as dead.
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Old 04-08-2013, 20:36   #68
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Re: Justice for SV/Quest crew announced

Nice to know there are others on this thread like captain58sailin who have seen the other half of the world in all its hideousness. Those folks in that part of the world have been hacking each other to death for thousands of years and no amount of effort on the part of politicians or the quisling UN are going to change it.
I've heard some real horror stories from NGO's that some of the worst atrocities were by those aligned with the UN so they rank pretty low in my book.
Politics and power is what counts over there as you know and no amount of handwringing on the part of the best intentioned people in the west is going to change that IMO. Twenty years before Saddam Hussein was hung, he was on the CIA payroll... go figure!
When folks, unlike yourself, captain, opine that the world could be a better place if only we are more understanding and explain our point of view everything would be fine, they know not of what they speak, believe me. As the song says... 'there be a bad moon rising'. Phil
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Old 04-08-2013, 20:53   #69
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pirate Re: Justice for SV/Quest crew announced

Say the pontificating white folk who slaughtered how many of each other in two WW...? and countless other petty wars over the centuries... get a life.. get a frickin education...
And... regarding Sharia Law.... its only an eye for an eye if the killers family are not prepared to pay the 'Blood Price'...
Read your bludi bibles.... it started with the Jews and god...I mean...the world is only 6000 something years old is it not...
PS: No... I'm not anti Semite... just anti STUPID.... Mcarthyism aint dead... just changed regions...
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Old 05-08-2013, 01:11   #70
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Who would have ever thought I'd find people defending a group of people who killed others who had done them no personal harm? Reading between the lines it seems there are people here on the forum who feel that the killing of Quest's crew was justified simply because they were American. The loss of any life that is innocent of causing harm to others is a tragedy.

Shame on anyone who would justify these killings because of actions done by other people in another time and in another place. None of the crew of Quest were involved in Blackhawk Down to my knowledge.

Why would you value the life of those sailors any less than the lives of any other murder victim? What good feeling can you possibly receive from making excuses for a group of men who decided to kill people who had done them no personal wrong?

Being American does not reduce the value of your life.
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Old 05-08-2013, 01:17   #71
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I'm with you Don. This thread is sad.
Can I join your party or at least make my own list? I find the direction this thread has taken depressing.
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Old 05-08-2013, 01:19   #72
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I am going to chime in with Capt. Phil. I was delivering food containers to the military in Mogadishu in 1993, the shooting had stopped, barely, there was still the odd mortar being lobbed at the harbor. I performed my crew change there, due to a breakdown of the plane, we got to spend a little time with the UN people that were there. The story I got from them was at the time there were 2 brother warlords fighting for power, there was one mass grave near the road to the airport, that reportedly had 5,000 people in it, I don't know who was responsible for those dead people, but there was a lot of killing going on before the US forces were involved, in a struggle for power between the brothers. I also saw a huge windmill farm there that was not working due to all of the copper being stripped from the windmills. The fishing offshore was quite good, we were able to hand line a couple of fish every night. Really doesn't matter whose bullet kills you, you are just as dead.
Thank you for your service captain58sailin.
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Old 05-08-2013, 01:54   #73
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Re: Justice for SV/Quest crew announced

Don't thank me, I was just a seaman, not in the military at that time. I don't condone what was done to those missionaries, in any way shape or form.
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Old 05-08-2013, 11:02   #74
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Re: Justice for SV/Quest crew announced

+1, engele... I agree, it is all depressing... Phil
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Old 05-08-2013, 11:23   #75
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Re: Justice for SV/Quest crew announced

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I find the direction this thread has taken depressing.
+1

It's amazing how some folks will find offence in so very little .


Fair play for the USA in actually bringing these guys to court . One thing I like about the US judicial system is that life often enough means life (or at least 267 years )......whereas in the UK the norm seems to be somewhat less than half a life sentence . Albeit overall I feel more comfortable with the UK process of getting people into prison, imperfect though it also is (and all systems are and always will be).

Me is against capital punishment, not for any moral reasons but because it is often enough wrongly applied and because a lifetime behind bars is one helluva punishment, and it lasts a longgggggggg time.
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