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Old 17-06-2013, 10:38   #16
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Re: Just when you think things are going well...

Your engine shouldnt stall when you go into reverse. You should look into what's going on there. With big boats I 'm a "go in hot" guy. (me and Capn Ron I guess!) I've used the engine and Max prop as a brake regularly on several boats to 47 feet.... there are times when it's the only way to control your boat actually. You need a good prop that will "bite" in reverse. Oh by the way... I've never had to have transmission work on a boat either. (knock on wood)
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Old 17-06-2013, 11:07   #17
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Re: Just when you think things are going well...

What ever works for you is best. Coming in 'hot' was too hard on my nerves so years ago I turned down the volume. Cheechako is correct... your engine should not stall moving from neutral into reverse... something is not working correctly. When we got our power boat (54 feet), she had twin screws and was a dream to dock in crosswinds, headwinds or sternwinds. Just slowed her down to nearly stopped, wheel amidships, and jogged forward and reverse with both engines or either one. Worked like a dream... there was only about 2 feet leeway on either side so not much room for error but could turn her in her own length if need be. Phil
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Old 17-06-2013, 11:11   #18
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Re: Just when you think things are going well...

Yeah, there's "hot" and "too hot" for sure. We deal with a lot of current up here, sometimes it's the only way. Fortunately though, being used to doing so saved my *&# in Nassau once!
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Old 17-06-2013, 11:16   #19
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Originally Posted by Cheechako View Post
Your engine shouldnt stall when you go into reverse. You should look into what's going on there. With big boats I 'm a "go in hot" guy. (me and Capn Ron I guess!) I've used the engine and Max prop as a brake regularly on several boats to 47 feet.... there are times when it's the only way to control your boat actually. You need a good prop that will "bite" in reverse. Oh by the way... I've never had to have transmission work on a boat either. (knock on wood)
I've wondered about that, but it handles reverse perfectly fine when there is little to no headway. It doesn't give me any grief when backing out of a slip, backing down on an anchor, or even landing in a slip, so long as I have bled off a great deal of forward speed.

I've always attributed it to having 8hp and a dinky 2 bladed prop...just assumed that when gliding in neutral the prop is spinning due to water flow over the blades and that shifting into reverse applies too much opposite torque too quickly for such a small engine to overcome. Could that be the case?

Although different, I picture what would happen if I put a car in neutral and drifted to 5mph and then shifted to reverse. Obvious other damage aside, I imagine it would take a tremendous amount of power to stop the wheels rolling one direction and then get them spinning in the other. Am I way off there?

I am really learning as I go here as I've never had a sailboat with an inboard. My only other exposure to inboards was on a ski boat with a 351, so just a bit different in terms of power!
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Old 17-06-2013, 11:24   #20
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Re: Just when you think things are going well...

ummm...bumper cars...bumper boats...

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Old 17-06-2013, 12:36   #21
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Re: Just when you think things are going well...

Cheechako... I recall coming into the dock in Egmont, BC a few years back which is just down the track from the Skookumchuck Rapids and the current was running around 6-8 knots so you had to come in smartly. The locals just stood by on the dock to watch the fun as a Yank flagged boat came in but because I had drive seineboats in and out of there for years, it was easy peasy. Practice and familiarity can make a big difference. No one lifted a finger to help us tie up but they did buy us a round in the pub at the top of the dock after we were secured. Cheers, Phil
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Old 17-06-2013, 18:18   #22
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Re: Just when you think things are going well...

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I'm going to try backing down wind! I would have thought the wind would push the bow away fast in strong wind?.......
Yes, quite possible. What I have suggested only works if the wind is truly parallel to the slip and you have a decent amount of rudder authority. I found it worked OK on my then underpowered 30' fin keel but not on my underpowered 28' full keel hull.
Oh and you need some finesse but then you will to have finesse in any situation docking in 20+ kts winds.
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Old 17-06-2013, 18:38   #23
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Re: Just when you think things are going well...

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Originally Posted by DaBod View Post
I've wondered about that, but it handles reverse perfectly fine when there is little to no headway. It doesn't give me any grief when backing out of a slip, backing down on an anchor, or even landing in a slip, so long as I have bled off a great deal of forward speed.

I've always attributed it to having 8hp and a dinky 2 bladed prop...just assumed that when gliding in neutral the prop is spinning due to water flow over the blades and that shifting into reverse applies too much opposite torque too quickly for such a small engine to overcome. Could that be the case?

Although different, I picture what would happen if I put a car in neutral and drifted to 5mph and then shifted to reverse. Obvious other damage aside, I imagine it would take a tremendous amount of power to stop the wheels rolling one direction and then get them spinning in the other. Am I way off there?

I am really learning as I go here as I've never had a sailboat with an inboard. My only other exposure to inboards was on a ski boat with a 351, so just a bit different in terms of power!
Something is clearly not quite right. In essence what you are saying is that the power generated by the water flow acting on the prop are stronger than the power generated by the engine. In this scenario, a small dinky prop would be an advantage as the water flow would have less area to act on.

But I could understand that the water flow forces on a generously sized prop could be greater than those developed by the small engine thus stalling it.
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Old 17-06-2013, 19:53   #24
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Re: Just when you think things are going well...

Docking incidences will eventually happen to most skippers eventually. I hit exceedingly hard once with a slight tail wind. I wasn't going fast at all, put it into reverse a few feet before my bow entered the slip. Gave her some throttle to slow down some, noticed not slowing down, thought because tail wind was bit stronger than anticipated I'd give even more throttle and more throttle. In disbelief boat seemed to be going forward faster each time I throttled up. Can't be....crunch. The bow rode up the fixed dock that is 3 feet above the water, right up to the waterline stripe. Turns out shift linkage came unscrewed from lever on side of transmission and reverse never engaged (although the lever indicated reverse), transmission remained in forward gear. Luckily only scrapes, no one hurt; the rake of my bow allowed boat to ride up the dock for a softer landing, whew!
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Old 17-06-2013, 20:36   #25
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Re: Just when you think things are going well...

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Originally Posted by DaBod View Post
I certainly don't normally use reverse as an emergency brake and always try to err on the side of too slow when maneuvering around slips, etc. Today, however, I truly felt it was a last resort, as I had long before shifted into neutral, but wasn't bleeding off any forward speed.

Aside from realizing what was happening earlier and aborting to reassess my options, what advice would you give on the best course of action to slow a boat's forward speed when there is a tailwind? I'd sure appreciate any tips!

Thanks!
I don't know if you have a midship cleat (I made and installed one due to "times like these"), but if I am coming in "true but fast" and my wimpy folder and direct drive reverse ain't going to cut it, I bail on the tiller, jump off the boat with the midship line and snag the aft dock bollard. The bow smacks its fenders (because you've got fenders forward, of course!) against the dock, not the stemhead against the finger, with added chunks of gelcoat left behind.

I have a 33 footer and weigh a mere fraction of that 33 footer. But even a half-inch line around a bollard will stop a boat in inches if you are willing to move your ass out of the cockpit and onto the dock.
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Old 17-06-2013, 20:55   #26
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I was moving my boat from Jacksonville, FL to a long waited slip that had become available in St. Augustine. The wind was much too strong when moving day arrived but we toughed it out. When we arrived, lots of help from nearby boats protected us (and their boats) from damage. The next morning, with winds abated and sun shinning, I stepped on deck to soak in my new surroundings. A voice from the boat in the next slip welcomed me. "Hey, captain" he called out, "how big is that boat?" Puffed up with pride, I responded, "She's a 40 footer!" His response was everything I deserved...... the old salt established the pecking order with, "You would have thought she was a G-damn destroyer."
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Old 17-06-2013, 21:01   #27
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Re: Just when you think things are going well...

Various other possibilities, most of which unfortunately require being able to predict a problem:
Line across front of slip, padding on front of slip if marina allows it.
Parking dinghy in front of slip while daysailing.
Temporarily visiting fuel dock or an open end tie or some "port in a storm" that isn't downwind.
Improvising some sort of drogue.
If there's enough room, doing a 360 spin to kill speed.
Don't think this would work, but has anyone tried getting a long line on an upwind dock across from your downwind dock? Maybe it might work if someone was standing by on the upwind dock to throw the line.
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Old 17-06-2013, 22:00   #28
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Re: Just when you think things are going well...

No advice other than if you are likely to experience winds like that on a regular basis you might want to consider threading a dockline through a fender and then cleat it to both sides of the slip with enough slack to float the fender. It might slow you down enough to keep the bow from driving into the dock should you come in too hot in the future.
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Old 17-06-2013, 22:35   #29
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Re: Just when you think things are going well...

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Originally Posted by BMWshoe View Post
I was moving my boat from Jacksonville, FL to a long waited slip that had become available in St. Augustine. The wind was much too strong when moving day arrived but we toughed it out. When we arrived, lots of help from nearby boats protected us (and their boats) from damage. The next morning, with winds abated and sun shinning, I stepped on deck to soak in my new surroundings. A voice from the boat in the next slip welcomed me. "Hey, captain" he called out, "how big is that boat?" Puffed up with pride, I responded, "She's a 40 footer!" His response was everything I deserved...... the old salt established the pecking order with, "You would have thought she was a G-damn destroyer."
I love it.
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Old 18-06-2013, 05:04   #30
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Backing into weather is a good thing to know about. Most boats are directionally stable with the stern to weather - the bow trails along better than it leads. That said, backing into a slip can be tough with many cruisey boats with little rudder authority. Backing into hazards can make the escape easier. I tend to back into questionable holes and reef strewn areas. ... But then the rudder is the first thing to hit. Nothing is perfect.
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