Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 11-10-2013, 05:39   #16
Bailing as fast as I can.
 
GILow's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Boat: Swanson 42
Posts: 3,585
Re: jib size?

SOHCAHTOA.



Sine = Opposite over Hypotenuse
Cosine = Adjacent over Hypotenuse
Tan = Opposite over Adjacent.

Still, a lot nicer to measure it on a well mown lawn on a wind free day. Plus you could give a clean while you are at it, though it looks ok in the picture.

P.S. Sorry to nit pick, but I reckon that traveller for the jib sheet block needs to come forward a fair bit for that sail, there's not much downforce evident from the photo. But there's me being a niggly again.... sigh... you'd think I'd learn.

Matt
__________________

__________________
GILow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-10-2013, 05:41   #17
cruiser

Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: medusa NY
Boat: Tayana Surprise 45 schooner "Union Pacific"
Posts: 2,098
Re: jib size?

Quote:
Originally Posted by GILow View Post
SOHCAHTOA.



Sine = Opposite over Hypotenuse
Cosine = Adjacent over Hypotenuse
Tan = Opposite over Adjacent.

Still, a lot nicer to measure it on a well mown lawn on a wind free day. Plus you could give a clean while you are at it, though it looks ok in the picture.

Matt
if you want a really good look at it...
__________________

__________________
scoobert is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-10-2013, 05:49   #18
Bailing as fast as I can.
 
GILow's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Boat: Swanson 42
Posts: 3,585
Re: jib size?

Oh you are going to think I am such a tosser... but I have to say it...

There's something darn strange about the way the foil is sitting on the roller furler. That LOOKS like (and I have to say I had my head upside down for this bit, glad to see someone else has trouble working out which way the iphone camera should go) the sail is folded hard back against the edge of the furler foil.

Don't think it should look like that at all, certainly have never seen that on any system I have used.

Sorry, I don't want to be one of these negative nit picking types, but I feel like that could damage the jib. Was the tension completely released on the roller furler retrieval line? (ok, that's NOT the real name, but I think you know the one I mean.)

Matt
__________________
GILow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-10-2013, 05:54   #19
Registered User
 
SV Sea Monkey's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Annapolis, MD
Boat: Island Packet 35
Posts: 112
Re: jib size?

Quote:
Originally Posted by scoobert View Post
its actually geometry
and the only formulas i remember anymore are for right triangles.
Scoobert,

Use the mast height and the length from tack to mast at deck level ("J") as the legs of a right triangle and calculate from there. If you want to get fancy, you can look up "law of sines" or "law of cosines". Or you could go even simpler and hoist a line, mark the distance with a knot, lower the line, and measure. Plenty of other ways, too...
__________________
SV Sea Monkey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-10-2013, 05:55   #20
cruiser

Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: medusa NY
Boat: Tayana Surprise 45 schooner "Union Pacific"
Posts: 2,098
Re: jib size?

Quote:
Originally Posted by GILow View Post
Oh you are going to think I am such a tosser... but I have to say it...

There's something darn strange about the way the foil is sitting on the roller furler. That LOOKS like (and I have to say I had my head upside down for this bit, glad to see someone else has trouble working out which way the iphone camera should go) the sail is folded hard back against the edge of the furler foil.

Don't think it should look like that at all, certainly have never seen that on any system I have used.

Sorry, I don't want to be one of these negative nit picking types, but I feel like that could damage the jib. Was the tension completely released on the roller furler retrieval line? (ok, that's NOT the real name, but I think you know the one I mean.)

Matt
no, on our two hour sail it was cleated off. the drum was wound for the big 150, i didnt want the wire to uncoil, and create a headache.
__________________
scoobert is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-10-2013, 06:00   #21
Bailing as fast as I can.
 
GILow's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Boat: Swanson 42
Posts: 3,585
Re: jib size?

OK, sorry to keep going on, but I have never seen a wire swaged onto the foot of a sail before either. Can't think of a reason not to... except maybe it would be really hard to replace if you found it was starting to fray or it got damaged while being used. And there's no thimble on the wire to prevent it from kinking under load either.

Just trying to be constructive here, but I am starting to sound like an old crone. I'll shutup now.

Matt
__________________
GILow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-10-2013, 06:03   #22
cruiser

Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: medusa NY
Boat: Tayana Surprise 45 schooner "Union Pacific"
Posts: 2,098
Re: jib size?

Quote:
Originally Posted by GILow View Post
OK, sorry to keep going on, but I have never seen a wire swaged onto the foot of a sail before either. Can't think of a reason not to... except maybe it would be really hard to replace if you found it was starting to fray or it got damaged while being used. And there's no thimble on the wire to prevent it from kinking under load either.

Just trying to be constructive here, but I am starting to sound like an old crone. I'll shutup now.

Matt

thats not from me. that is from the P,Po that was a racer.
it makes it so i can haul the sail all the way up, perhaps so the fuller will work properly without messing up the halyard?
i do not know.
__________________
scoobert is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-10-2013, 06:15   #23
Bailing as fast as I can.
 
GILow's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Boat: Swanson 42
Posts: 3,585
Re: jib size?

Yes, that makes sense, it is needed to get the sail to the right height, but I just worry that it will cause you headaches when you don't need them. (i.e. 50 miles from shore.)

I bought a swaging tool a few years ago and I was so glad I did. If you had one (and they don't cost much for a good one) you could redo that wire with a thimble and a D shackle and even have a couple of spares hanging up ready to go. (I have four made up and hanging in my sail locker for various jobs around the boat) And you could also use a heftier gauge of wire, that one looks a little under nourished for a big boat like yours.

But I have to be careful here, as there may be a good reason for that setup, which someone with more experience than me could shed some light on.

Matt
__________________
GILow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-10-2013, 06:23   #24
cruiser

Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: medusa NY
Boat: Tayana Surprise 45 schooner "Union Pacific"
Posts: 2,098
Re: jib size?

i was looking at the harbor freight one, its hydraulic, and i have a 25% off coupon.
__________________
scoobert is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-10-2013, 06:27   #25
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Seattle
Boat: Cal 40
Posts: 2,401
Images: 7
Re: jib size?

Quote:
Originally Posted by GILow View Post
Oh you are going to think I am such a tosser... but I have to say it...

There's something darn strange about the way the foil is sitting on the roller furler. That LOOKS like (and I have to say I had my head upside down for this bit, glad to see someone else has trouble working out which way the iphone camera should go) the sail is folded hard back against the edge of the furler foil.

Don't think it should look like that at all, certainly have never seen that on any system I have used.

Sorry, I don't want to be one of these negative nit picking types, but I feel like that could damage the jib. Was the tension completely released on the roller furler retrieval line? (ok, that's NOT the real name, but I think you know the one I mean.)

Matt
Quote:
Originally Posted by scoobert View Post
no, on our two hour sail it was cleated off. the drum was wound for the big 150, i didnt want the wire to uncoil, and create a headache.

When I change jibs I unroll the sail, and put the new one on the foil. At this point the furling line is as rolled up on the drum as it's ever going to get. When I furl the smaller jib there is still furling line on the drum. I don't see any reason why you shouldn't be able to put the sail on the furler without it being able to unfurl completely.

Why would sailing with it rolled up a half turn damage the sail anymore than sailing with it reefed?

Some people put the pennant on the tack instead of the head to get the sail higher to gain visibility and/or not catch waves in the sail. Harken told me if I did this I should tie the tack to the foil. There is more lateral force trying to pull the sail out of the foil down at the tack than at the head. Others here have reported that they have never done that and have never pulled the sail out of the foil.

The swivel has to go up to close to the halyard exit or you can get a halyard wrap. This is where the top part of the swivel doesn't swivel and wraps the halyard around the forestay. There are some nice pictures on the web of the forestay unlayed with strands broken due to this.
__________________
cal40john is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-10-2013, 06:29   #26
cruiser

Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: medusa NY
Boat: Tayana Surprise 45 schooner "Union Pacific"
Posts: 2,098
Re: jib size?

Quote:
Originally Posted by cal40john View Post
The swivel has to go up to close to the halyard exit or you can get a halyard wrap. This is where the top part of the swivel doesn't swivel and wraps the halyard around the forestay. There are some nice pictures on the web of the forestay unlayed with strands broken due to this.

i had this issue after my first trip. it has slightly damaged the wire halyard.
__________________
scoobert is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-10-2013, 06:42   #27
Bailing as fast as I can.
 
GILow's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Boat: Swanson 42
Posts: 3,585
Re: jib size?

Quote:
Originally Posted by cal40john View Post
Why would sailing with it rolled up a half turn damage the sail anymore than sailing with it reefed?
Just a gut feeling here, but with a few turns on the foil, the tension is spread out over the turns whereas with a sharp turn back on the foil like that I feel like the load is on the crease in the sail.

I could be talking total rubbish, but it feels that way to me.

Matt
__________________
GILow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-10-2013, 06:44   #28
Bailing as fast as I can.
 
GILow's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Boat: Swanson 42
Posts: 3,585
Re: jib size?

Quote:
Originally Posted by scoobert View Post
i was looking at the harbor freight one, its hydraulic, and i have a 25% off coupon.
OK, yes, well that's a bit more than I carry around. I was talking about the hand sort, that does those little nickel swages on the bottom of your sail in the video.

Hydraulic would possibly be overkill for that job but hey, I'm never one to say no to buying a tool.

Matt
__________________
GILow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-10-2013, 06:47   #29
cruiser

Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: medusa NY
Boat: Tayana Surprise 45 schooner "Union Pacific"
Posts: 2,098
Re: jib size?

Quote:
Originally Posted by GILow View Post
Just a gut feeling here, but with a few turns on the foil, the tension is spread out over the turns whereas with a sharp turn back on the foil like that I feel like the load is on the crease in the sail.

I could be talking total rubbish, but it feels that way to me.

Matt
can you tell me the real reason i have two tracks on the fuller?
i understand you can start a second sail up before you have the first one down, but it goes the whole way up? can i have both jibs on or something? and what would i do for a second halyard?
__________________
scoobert is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-10-2013, 06:57   #30
Moderator
 
Pete7's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Solent, England
Boat: Moody 31
Posts: 8,551
Images: 14
Re: jib size?

Quote:
Originally Posted by scoobert View Post
can you tell me the real reason i have two tracks on the fuller?
i understand you can start a second sail up before you have the first one down, but it goes the whole way up? can i have both jibs on or something? and what would i do for a second halyard?
Two head sails for down wind work springs to mind. Use the spinnaker halyard if you have one if not storm halyard. You won't be able to bring the first one down with the second up because the top swivel will jam on the second sail.

We have twin tracks on the foil. I use them in alternate years so they stay open and clean not full of salt and crud.

Pete
__________________

__________________
Moody 31 - April Lass
Pete7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
jib, size

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 02:08.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.