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Old 18-10-2007, 17:56   #1
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Is This A Blue Water Boat?

Is this a potential Blue Water Boat? Help!
Hello Folks,
Need some help.
I live in Campbell River, BC. (Vancouver Island) I have been looking for a sailboat for some time now and have found two that may work but need some advice.
I plan to live aboard and sail down to Mexico and possibly the south Pacific.

I have been aboard this boat:
Advance Yacht Sales (Sidney, BC)&

I really like this one but don't know if it could be a bluewater boat. I am willing to upgrade rigging, gear, and others but my concern would be hull design and sailability.

The other boat I am interested in is:
Home Page

Once again, I am willing to upgrade the boat as needed, but not sure about hull design and sailability.

The Question: I would love to hear your opinion on either or both of these boats as to whether they could be GOOD blue water boats.
What are your thoughts? I obviously like the pilot-house design.

Thanks in advance,
Steve Wallace
Campbell River, BC
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Old 18-10-2007, 18:23   #2
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Hi Steve, Yes, you obviously like the pilot house design. Had serious trouble trying to view the lower one, had te restart the laptop and re-enter this site, don't know why. First one ($89k one) looks good, but is she home built? Seems like a lot of varnished plywood, so from first glance I'd check the exterior integrity - not putting it down - you've sailed it, but you are asking for BLUE WATER boat opinions. Check the other threads on this "blue water" issue, there are a few good ones here. First time buyers (assumption here) have the buying power, but research at this stage will pay dividends. Perhaps elaborate on your plans and intended cruising grounds, intended crew size, length of cruise plan etc - you'll get great advice and direction here . . best wishes . . Mick
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Old 18-10-2007, 18:39   #3
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Those are some good looking boats. I have made the trip you're thinking of (Mexico and across the Pacific), and I came home intent on my next boat having a pilothouse. The first one looks great down below. If either passes inspection its hard to see where you could go wrong. IMHO they look like they both would make fine trade wind passages. Hope to see you in the islands.
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Old 18-10-2007, 19:11   #4
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the Huntingford looks like a modified Morgan OI
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Old 18-10-2007, 21:30   #5
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Actually, it looks even more like a Yorktown.
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Old 18-10-2007, 21:47   #6
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I really like the looks of the second boat. Hard to tell by looks but it appears to be an ocean capable boat. I just don't know the boat at all.
Kind Regards,
JohnL
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Old 18-10-2007, 22:03   #7
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Just a thought, when boats are not recognized, it is usually for one of two reasons. Either they were one off designs that have the potential to be really good or really bad, or, they are one of only a few produced before a builder went out of business due to a product that wouldn't sell. Either way, I would look very closely at these boats before seriously considering them.
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Old 18-10-2007, 22:16   #8
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Stan Huntingford the designer of #1 died a few years ago so no help from him. No mention of the builder so I suspect it's a one-off. He's a well respected designer of cruising boats, but in a steel boat a lot depends on how well it was constructed inside so that condensation makes it's way to the bilge and not get trapped by stiffeners. Hard to say under all that wood. Nothing about the ballast, displacement or sail area so hard to get an idea of it's sailing qualities. The price seems high for a one off steel boat that has not much equipment, but perhaps the owner thinks the good condition justifies it. I don't agree.

The Cooper 353 is a bit more of a know quality in BC. Cooper built middle of the road boats during the 1980's boat building boom. Nothing fancy but probably will get you where you want to go. Very likely a better sailing boat (lighter and reasonable sail area). The Volvo MD11 is an old engine with expensive parts... Overall, it would be my first choice. I didn't see an asking price.
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Old 18-10-2007, 23:04   #9
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Stan Huntingford was a well respected Canadian Naval Architect who was responsible for a lot of custom built designs in the PNW. He designed both of these boats. He designed boats for Cooper as well as for a number of small custom boat builders. His designs are well proven and usually command a better market value than a lot of big name production boats. I think either of these boats would be suitable. My preferance for power would be the perkins engine. As to some of the negative comments out there, there are a lot of good boats that have come out of small dedicated yards. A lot of these yards closed do to being priced out of the market by cheaper offshore labor, not because there product was inferior.
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Old 18-10-2007, 23:10   #10
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Lancerbye, not even going to get into that discussion. My point stands. If you are looking at a boat whose design or builder is not well known, better safe than sorry. Sounds like Huntingford is well known in Canada. Just not a common boat in this part of the US.
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Old 18-10-2007, 23:24   #11
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To me ocean passages (multi-week) are about:

- Stronger rigging, chain plates mast and boom than smaller production boats - Can't tell much about these rigs but I would compare these to "known" quantity boats

- Engine horesepower - Power to spare. I wouldn't like to rely on 25hp to push the boat in a storm and handle the electric loads

- Fuel tankage - Of course this depends on boat and engine size but I'd rather have 75 gallons on board than 50.

- Water tankage - yes you can make water (read power and engine size again) but I'd be happier with 150 gallons as opposed to 100

Of course you can cross the pacific in a dinghy and just about anything else.

I too am a pilothouse fan - it makes much sense in the tropics. I have read opinions and concerns about how well large windows will hold up under crashing waves. Having considered that, lot's of Pilothouse boats have made crossings.

One thing is to maybe use a proven PH design like the nauticat to compare these features against. The nauticat is my sort of bench mark for thsese types of boats.

Regarding the brand of boat or boatyard - I will reiterate my standard advice. Find a boat that is in production or if out of production has an active user/owner group on the internet. Being able to ask current exerienced owners questions is invaluable. If you have a one of boat, you need to be prepared to have "boat builder" skills to maintain it.
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Old 19-10-2007, 03:41   #12
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Stanley C. Huntingford (of Vancouver, British Columbia) also designed such notables as the Passport 42, Slocum 43, Formosa 42, Aleutian 51, and the Maple Leaf 56 (Cooper Yachts).
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Old 19-10-2007, 09:21   #13
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[quote=Evan;106343]He's a well respected designer of cruising boats, but in a steel boat a lot depends on how well it was constructed inside so that condensation makes it's way to the bilge and not get trapped by stiffeners. Hard to say under all that wood. Nothing about the ballast, quote]

I'm a bit confused, neither of the boats refered to were steel nor wood...did I miss something?
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Old 19-10-2007, 09:55   #14
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I had just gone back to the broker sites to see which boat was steel!
Ex-Calif made a lot of great points, especially the Nauticat as a bench mark to compare, and about having enough horsepower. Pilothouses, and some power to push them, seem like a combo to me. Though one of those boats only displaced 13,000# I think and that might not take too much HP to give it some punch.
I agree that there are a lot of great boats out of BC and Canada in general that had small production and you will find them all over the world. In the 90's on the milk run, it was my contention that a third of the boats out there were from Washington, Oregon, and BC. Someone must be doing something right.
I liked the dinner plate holding system on the galley counter on the 2nd boat. It would be quite the frisbee launcher at sea however.
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Old 19-10-2007, 10:16   #15
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Steve

I was going to mention that fact earlier that neither were steel but someone got that notion and away it went. LOL. enjoyed the location pictures of the Cooper since I have spent time at all those places. I lived in C.R from 1981 to 1989 and in Black Creek until 2001. Do you know anyone at green Point?
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