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Old 23-01-2013, 16:23   #61
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Re: is the MOB pole obsolete?

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Originally Posted by Eric50 View Post
.........

We brought some modification to our pole as follow:

The lines for light activation, and tying to the horseshoe buoy, were of poor quality material (polypropylène, that loose its strength over the years under sunlight) and fixed both end with (very) loose bosun chair knots (or had to be tied with at erection stage) :

We replace these line with proper rope, splicing and carabiner snaphook for an easier and faster erection and safer tying at each ends.

..................
Polypropylene is usually chosen because it floats. Did you replace it with another style of floating line or something else.

I believe the floating aspect is important but as you correctly state, polypropylene is UV unstable; perhaps one could just replace it yearly (or even more often) and remove it (cover it?) when not underway.
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Old 23-01-2013, 17:55   #62
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Re: is the MOB pole obsolete?

Reality check: Sailing couples usually do not share equal skills. With the exception of a few extradordinary souls, it is most likely that one partner does most of the navigation, sail changes and helming in critical situations while the other acts in a support role. The problem with this reality is that if the wrong person goes overboard will the remaining partner have the composure and presence of mind to throw a MOB pole, lock in the MOB position on the GPS and take control of the boat for the rescue in a critical situation? The likelihood is that the sorry soul in the water may never be rescued. This observation is not made in a mean spirited way, but rather one that is based on real life encounters of the majority of "couples cruisers" I have met who precisely fit this mold. So, is a MOB obsolete? No, but in a real life crisis it may never be deployed. The choice is yours.
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Old 23-01-2013, 18:53   #63
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Re: is the MOB pole obsolete?

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Originally Posted by rognvald View Post
Reality check: Sailing couples usually do not share equal skills. With the exception of a few extradordinary souls, it is most likely that one partner does most of the navigation, sail changes and helming in critical situations while the other acts in a support role. The problem with this reality is that if the wrong person goes overboard will the remaining partner have the composure and presence of mind to throw a MOB pole, lock in the MOB position on the GPS and take control of the boat for the rescue in a critical situation? The likelihood is that the sorry soul in the water may never be rescued. This observation is not made in a mean spirited way, but rather one that is based on real life encounters of the majority of "couples cruisers" I have met who precisely fit this mold. So, is a MOB obsolete? No, but in a real life crisis it may never be deployed. The choice is yours.
Reality check? There's no excuse for either member of a sailing couple not to develop competence in MOB situations. Tossing the pole just isn't that hard.
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Old 23-01-2013, 19:08   #64
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Re: is the MOB pole obsolete?

Only if you singlehand, I have had one experence with a MOB. Was in the Santa Barbara Flats, one of the crew was a CG swimmer. He put all his safety gear on. The seas that day were running around 10-12' and winds of about 25-30knts. This grew from and argument about rescue in heavy seas. He jumped over and MOB equipment was deployed, it took almost 3 hrs. to get him back on board. At times we would lose visual contact and actually became desperate. The moral of this story is that w/o MOB equipment we very well might have had to call for help. Yes I alway's have this obselete stuff on board. ..Michael..
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Old 23-01-2013, 19:12   #65
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Re: is the MOB pole obsolete?

About the polypropylene, to be accurate, we replace the short length of rope that stay hooked on the pushpit once the pole has been trhown away.

We also replace the ropes of the horshoe buoy that are use to secure the buoy on the support, but the lines that are rolled on the drums, and tied to the buoys, are in polypropylene for obvious reason.
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Old 23-01-2013, 19:55   #66
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Re: is the MOB pole obsolete?

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Reality check? There's no excuse for either member of a sailing couple not to develop competence in MOB situations. Tossing the pole just isn't that hard.
Unless you're sitting on the john.

And She can be forgiven for wondering for a few seconds what that splash was, given my long history of supremacy, competence and the fact that I was born a stud.

If you find there's "no excuse" for a mistake your wife made, then one, you're not going to have her long, or two, you made a mistake marrying her.

Now have a seat, and keep your marital problems private.
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Old 23-01-2013, 20:16   #67
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Re: is the MOB pole obsolete?

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Originally Posted by Paul L View Post
Even on a crewed boat, the current US Sailing recommendations is to throw a ring and start the quick-stop maneuver.
I believe the race authorities require that the vessels carry a MOB pole. So why not use it?


Quote:
For one, all competitors will be required to carry a knife they can open with one hand. Every boat must have a GPS locator. Man-overboard poles will have to be more accessible.
A year after two sailors died in an accident off the coast of Michigan, the Chicago Yacht Club's annual Race to Mackinac will include new safety rules. - Chicago Tribune
Quote:
61. Man Overboard Pole -- Boats shall carry a man overboard pole and flag, with a lifebuoy, a self-igniting light, a whistle, and a drogue attached. These items shall be stored on deck, and ready for instant use and affixed in a manner that allows for a “quick release”. A boat may carry a self-inflating MOB module to satisfy this requirement. Self – inflating MOB modules should be tested and serviced in accordance with its manufacturer’s specifications.

http://www.cycracetomackinac.com/ass...ll_-_Final.pdf
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Old 24-01-2013, 07:18   #68
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Re: is the MOB pole obsolete?

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Reality check? There's no excuse for either member of a sailing couple not to develop competence in MOB situations. Tossing the pole just isn't that hard.
While the "skipper" on deck and the "admiral" in the galley might've passed muster back in the old days, it's redolent of the "single point of failure" that good seamanship precludes. My wife the biologist is taking a diesel maintenance course this winter, and I (the purportive diesel installer) am taking a first aid certificate.

Cross-training is important for cruising couples, as parity of skill set is at the heart of good watch-keeping. At 3 AM, if my wife sees the barometer plummeting and "feels" squally weather coming on, she should be able to reef (further) down without waking me up. She should also know when she's outmatched, in which case it's "all hands" until the boat is ready to meet the conditions.

Every spring, even in the largely benign conditions of Lake Ontario, we do MOB practice, quick stops and so on, because anyone can fall out, and it's incumbent on any of the crew to have a procedure to remedy that.
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Old 24-01-2013, 07:26   #69
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Re: is the MOB pole obsolete?

I think it is obsolete if you have better onboard.

IMO better would be crew usually wearing PFD's and with a PLB. and maybe also with own "inflatable sausage" (Diving style!). and maybe a handheld VHF! In practice I would settle on a PFD and a handheld VHF ("turn left you tw#t!").

I am sure quickly deployed a MOB pole is useful (easy to lose yer bearings in empty sea) and would certainly have a good chance of happening on a fully crewed racing yacht (where a MOB if not part of the accepted risk is nonetheless not a total surprise) - but can't say I would rely on it getting deployed quickly on a shorthanded yacht. Perhaps another triumph of "safety" marketing into the recreational boat market?, with main benefit being as a comfort blanket.......

100% of MOB's are saved by not falling overboard in the first place.
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Old 24-01-2013, 07:40   #70
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Re: is the MOB pole obsolete?

to those soloing--dont forget to grab that damned pole on your way overboard--especially if you are unconscious.....and make damned sure that your tether doesnt reach over side of boat.....

AND punch the location on your gps....
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Old 24-01-2013, 11:06   #71
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Re: is the MOB pole obsolete?

FWIW: ISAF regs require them for offshore races.
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Old 24-01-2013, 14:48   #72
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Re: is the MOB pole obsolete?

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I believe the race authorities require that the vessels carry a MOB pole. So why not use it?
As I said before, I was referring to a Mom and Pop crew. RubyJeans' example above was for a fully crewed boat, at least as I read the post. In that case it was almost impossible to recover the MOB. An M & P boat would have certainly had failed. As the US Sailing Quickstop directions indicate time is the most important issue. Throw a ring or cushion (or pull a MOM8/9 type device) and get the boat stop and turned around. In a M & P boat, that is probably your best option. I do believe that there are boats with poles setup for really easy launch. They are the exception. A pole, tied to a ring, tied to a light, tied to drogue has a lot of ways to get snarled. They aren't easy to setup properly on most boats.
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Old 24-01-2013, 15:56   #73
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Re: is the MOB pole obsolete?

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FWIW: ISAF regs require them for offshore races.
fine for racers----they also have full crews.

most of the time souls who cruise under sail do not enjoy that extravagance. if you are special and do enjoy full crew on your cruising sailboat--awesome for ye. most of us are not so fortunate.

for us, to fall ob is to die. needs to be avoided at all costs.
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Old 24-01-2013, 16:03   #74
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Re: is the MOB pole obsolete?

I think the pole is useful. I have mine rigged so a lifering and a big strobe go over with it. One of the best reasons for it is to give the person in the water something to swim to and some hope that you'll be back. And, even with a personal EPIRB or AIS device it gives the boat crew something to aim at once they get close. Sure, chances are slim a typical couple will ever be in a situation to use one, but it is pretty cheap and easy to carry it around just in case, and might come in handy for that one odd time.
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Old 24-01-2013, 16:25   #75
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Re: is the MOB pole obsolete?

Those of you who are interested to equip with a MOB pole might be interested in a couple of modifications:
1) sew strips of retro-reflective tape on the diagonal of the flag--shows up very well when you shine a torch (flashlight) on it
2) fabricate a small radar reflector for the tip of it...sometimes radar's eyes can help yours (saw this done on Pendragon, in about 1987)

The rest of you are also "right" in that if the weaker one can get the vessel to the victim, then both have a chance of there being a rescue...and offshore, you absolutely cannot count on someone else coming to the rescue. Not that it doesn't happen, but it's rare.

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