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Old 08-01-2013, 17:15   #91
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Re: Is the Cruising Lifestyle Dying ?

Hey Tar34, Where do you get the idea that I don't like science or shakespear? Or that I somehow lack role models? If I had to quickly pick one of my role models, the man who in a few short chapters, changed my life and put me here on this boat is easy. The father of the diesel duck, George Buehler. I was looking to build a speed boat and stumbled across The Troller Yacht book. I had never once even thought about sailing or world travel. The duck is pretty much the greatest boat ever, with a sail rig of course.
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Old 08-01-2013, 17:41   #92
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Re: Is the Cruising Lifestyle Dying ?

Yes David Old Jersey you can. There are 2 marina's in Paris the one by the Eiffel tower is mainly for Peniche's (barges) and the wash from the tourist 'Bateau Mouche' (Fly Boats) is horrendous and not recommended, if anyone is planning to go I would highly recommend booking well in advance at the Paris Arsenal marina just at the mouth of the Canal St Martin. Paris is a beautiful city but like all big city's you need to be careful of the rip offs, taxi's, resturants etc, Parisians are known throughout France for their arrogance, having said that it's a great 'one off' experience and if you like art, the Louvre is my personal favourite.
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Old 08-01-2013, 17:46   #93
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Re: Is the Cruising Lifestyle Dying ?

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Originally Posted by susswein View Post
I think the age gap being talked about here applies more to Americans than to other nationalities. Besides sailing I've been doing backpack-style travel in the 3rd world for many years, and 90% of the 20 or 30-somethings you meet are European or from Australia/New Zealand. The culture in those countries considers it quite normal to quit your job and take a year or two off to travel, and getting another job when you return from your travels doesn't seem to be a big issue. By comparison, The culture in the US is that you need to focus on your career and climb the corporate ladder, and most employers will reject you out of hand if you show a 1-2 year "traveling sabbatical" on your resume.
Very true. Almost all of the travelers my age that I've met while overseas have been Europeans or Aussies/Kiwis.

I think another reason that a lot of Americans my age don't sail/cruise is because most have grown up with a sense of imediate satisfaction in every aspect of their lives. There is no patience. Most Americans of my generation that have a desire to travel choose to hop on a jet and go. Most will complain about the extremely l-o-n-g seven hour flight. I'm sure there is a whole lot of reasons that fewer people in my generation choose to cruise. Maybe it will change now that fewer and fewer have careers to hold them back.

But: nothing goes to winward like a 747.
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Old 08-01-2013, 18:57   #94
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Re: Is the Cruising Lifestyle Dying ?

I have't read all the replies, just responding to OP:

I'm 33. From what I've seen after six years of living board in San Diego, then sailing to Ensenada and now living in Puerto Vallarta, yes, most cruisers are "old" and most are white.

"Old" is of course relative. For me, "old" is 60+. Of course, ask me when I'm 50 if I still think 60 is "old." After the 60+ crowd, most cruisers are in their 50s, then their 40s. Finding cruisers in their 30s is not that common and 20 year olds really stand out. At the marina we were at in San Diego and then in Ensenada, we were always the youngest boat and the only boat with a kid (soon to be kids.)

Here in Puerto Vallarta, at La Cruz Marina, there are a handful of boats with kids, the parents are either in their 30s or 40s.

So, in my so far limited experience cruising, yep, lots and lots of old people. I don't think the cruising lifestyle will die though as there are plenty of people in their 30s, 40s, and 50s doing it. I also feel like since the economic recession that began in 2008 more and more people are looking for a simpler way to live and more "young" people and families are looking to cruise.

There are a ton of blogs linked on my own blog that chronicle families aboard and cruising. Enjoy! Rebel Heart - Charlotte's Blog
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Old 08-01-2013, 20:31   #95
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Re: Is the Cruising Lifestyle Dying ?

Last winter when we arrived at Georgetown, Bahamas there were over 200 boats on the hook or the mooring balls at St Francis. We met 20 something US college grads on boats as small as 26', married 30 something Canadians on a 35' sloop with 3 kids being home schooled, a couple in their 80s from UK on a 40' Hinckley, and dozens others in between. We cruise every other winter for 6 months and are constantly surprised by the stories of people "breaking away". We are SSCA members and hook up everywhere we go, and have never experienced greater freedom and pure enjoyment, except maybe at university (BGSU-Go Falcons). We're shoving off again this Thanksgiving, from Tampa, for the USVis.
As Cervantes opined " The road is better than the Inn"
Cruising lifestyle is alive and well
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Old 08-01-2013, 21:37   #96
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Re: Is the Cruising Lifestyle Dying ?

G'Day all,

I'm a bit surprised at the apparently common feeling that one can only enjoy the company of age cohorts when cruising. One of the very best aspects of the life for Ann and I is having good friends of many different ages. Some are as young as our older grandkids, some (fewer every year, dammit) are older than us. Cruising sailors come in all flavours, and we find most of them to be interesting and worth cultivating. The occasional dickhead appears, but those noxious individuals seem to come in all the age groups and can be avoided with some fancy footwork.

Re the poster who after 3 whole years in Mexico believed that cruisers were all old and giving up after 1 to 4 years because of the life being to difficult and too grubby... Well, perhaps if he had gone a bit further from the USA he would have found a different demographic. There are plenty of enthusiastic long-termers out here who seem to ignore these supposed fatal difficulties. Actually, for us and some of our friends the big worry is having to swallow the anchor at some time and return to life ashore. Now THAT is a serious problem!

As to actual numbers of cruisers offshore, it's hard to get a real handle on this group. One source, should one really care to do the research, would be to contact Customs in the major overseas destinations, and ask for historical data re overseas yachts clearing in each year. I saw in the past such data from New Zealand, and imagine that it is available from most countries. Would be harder to quantify the folks who cruise in their national waters, though.

At any rate, while the population may change in structure, there does not seem to be a dearth of cruisers in the areas we frequent, and we don't worry about being left alone to enjoy the cruising world.

Cheers to all, irrespective of age

Jim
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Old 08-01-2013, 22:16   #97
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Re: Is the Cruising Lifestyle Dying ?

I will repeat what I said in another post about why there arent more young people cruising. It is all about jobs! When I started cruising in the 70s a couple could go for a few years and return to the good possibility of a job. Now with the economy the way it is, if a couple leaves a good job to go cruising, they may come back to no job opportunities. It is a more insecure world and even tho the prices of boats is low, the choice to go cruising is much harder. It didnt seem like there was any ill feeling toward the older cruisers in the 70s, maybe a little enviousness of their big 38 to 42 foot boats. OH how small that seems now! One of the best posts on CF that I have seen was from a man that had a Nordic Folkboat in the PNW and sailed it to Mexico and gave it away after a season of sailing. Not because he was tired of sailing, but because it got a young couple sailing. I think it is called passing the torch. BLESS HIM, _____Grant.
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Old 08-01-2013, 22:18   #98
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Re: Is the Cruising Lifestyle Dying ?

I "blame" the microchip for all manner of (perceived) evils. When I as a kid we didn't have a television, computer, mobile phone i-pad, i-pod (we were lucky to have an i-ron ) internet, twitter, CDs, DVDs, blue-rays etc. No gameboys, playstations, nintendos, wii, for us. Our arena was outdoors and books were our internet. If I wanted to speak to a friend I'd ride my bicycle round to his house (wasn't allowed to use the telephone for idle chit chat with friends). If we wanted to play a game, it was invariably outside - all the kids in our street used to come out after school and play cowboys and indians or soccer, or cricket or ride our bikes, or whatever was the thing to do.. if we wanted to experience a sport it was real, not virtual. In school holidays our family holidays were camping and trekking. My brother and I started to go camping or youth-hostelling, just the 2 of us, for days or sometimes even weeks, starting from when I was 10 and he was 12. I went overseas, by myself, for several months at age 16.

Now its all about virtual reality. I don't see kids kicking footballs any more... no dount they are inside, playing virtual soccer, co-op linked via the net to their friends. Junior participation in sport is down across almost every single sport. Easier to stay home and watch that to get out there and do.

Damn I sound like a grumpy old man! Hell, I am a grumpy old man. But in 30 mins from now, I'll be on board my boat, and my attitude will improve!
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Old 08-01-2013, 22:29   #99
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Re: Is the Cruising Lifestyle Dying ?

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....
...

But in 30 mins from now, I'll be on board my boat, and my attitude will improve!
Hurry, Patrick, Hurry!

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Old 09-01-2013, 00:22   #100
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Re: Is the Cruising Lifestyle Dying ?

Weyalan, that's 2 of us grumpy old men ! Frankly it's all about money, instead of fixing leaky old dinghy's n stuff to sell and move up a notch and constantly messin around on the water the kids live in a 'I want it know' era. Hard work to achieve things isn't very popular when you can tap the old man.
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Old 09-01-2013, 01:25   #101
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Re: Is the Cruising Lifestyle Dying ?

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Originally Posted by Weyalan View Post
I "blame" the microchip for all manner of (perceived) evils. When I as a kid we didn't have a television, computer, mobile phone i-pad, i-pod (we were lucky to have an i-ron ) internet, twitter, CDs, DVDs, blue-rays etc. No gameboys, playstations, nintendos, wii, for us. Our arena was outdoors and books were our internet. If I wanted to speak to a friend I'd ride my bicycle round to his house (wasn't allowed to use the telephone for idle chit chat with friends). If we wanted to play a game, it was invariably outside - all the kids in our street used to come out after school and play cowboys and indians or soccer, or cricket or ride our bikes, or whatever was the thing to do.. if we wanted to experience a sport it was real, not virtual. In school holidays our family holidays were camping and trekking. My brother and I started to go camping or youth-hostelling, just the 2 of us, for days or sometimes even weeks, starting from when I was 10 and he was 12. I went overseas, by myself, for several months at age 16.

Now its all about virtual reality. I don't see kids kicking footballs any more... no dount they are inside, playing virtual soccer, co-op linked via the net to their friends. Junior participation in sport is down across almost every single sport. Easier to stay home and watch that to get out there and do.

Damn I sound like a grumpy old man! Hell, I am a grumpy old man. But in 30 mins from now, I'll be on board my boat, and my attitude will improve!
My mother was from the old school and had an unshakable belief that boys should wear shorts from April 1st through the end of October - no matter what the weather.

Yes Weylan, my childhood sounds like yours. And yes, I am also a grumpy old man (When I was young.......and as my daughters say "the dinosaurs roamed the earth"). Hell that's what good about it - kids today have no idea just how wonderful our childhood was. I spent almost all my time outdoors, camping everywhere, swimming in the local river (without adults - no how many parents will allow that today?), bicycling everywhere and in reality just being a kid.

Beats the hell out of TV/internet/arranged activities every time


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Old 09-01-2013, 02:59   #102
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Re: Is the Cruising Lifestyle Dying ?

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So we've been sailing from Canada and down the ICW and have noticed that 99% of the other cruisers we meet are no offense but old. Besides the obvious money factor it makes no sense that 99lb grandma is on the bow heaving the lines while young people who should be there aren't. Are there more cruisers now than 25 years ago and has it always been like this where the majority of cruisers are into retirement? My personal opinion is that boats have become so RVish that nobody can afford them and their systems anymore. After the baby boomers are done who's going to keep the tradition alive?
Is there anything to suggest there are less cruisers out here than there were a decade or two ago? I thought numbers were increasing .

The average age of cruisers is probably increasing as the baby boomers are probably the first generation not to consider themselves old at 50. Unlike our parents and grandparents, in our 50's and 60's we are ready to embark on adventures rather than sit in a rocking chair on the porch.

This trend may not continue. Not from perceptions about ageing, but because as Weylan suggested, that spirit of adventure does not seem to be cultivated. I think this is sadly due largely to the real safety concern about sending kids out unsupervised to play in the street for the day.

Unfortunately concerns of 'safety' seem to be taken to the extreme and it is the overriding thought dominating most decisions of the generations following the baby boomers. Safe secure jobs, income, lifestyle, insurance, health care, retirement plans...... Many people spend so much time safeguarding their lives they forget to live a little in the process.
"Risk" (part and parcel of most things exciting and adventurous including cruising) seems to be a dirty word nowadays .

Long live the baby boomers
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Old 09-01-2013, 03:34   #103
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Re: Is the Cruising Lifestyle Dying ?

I am 61. I started sailing Sailfish at 7. In 2007, I bought a 1973 Pearson 36. It had been poorly maintained, but I knew it could all be brought back. I live in Germany, so the renovation process was hindered by the boat being in the US. I knew that buying all the new equipment would be cheaper in the US, plus I had a plethora of older mechanical and engineering advisors at my US marina to consult. For a month or two in the summers for the next three years, I replaced all the electronics, all the wiring and plumbing, deck hardware and standing rigging.

Although, in the end, I spent more than the purchase price of the boat, I liked that fact that I had been involved in all the installations and had become personally acquainted with every screw and bolt on board. I personally feel that it is important to know the age, quality and function of every piece of equipment. The satisfaction of seeing the results of a successful repair or installation is unbeatable.

One of my first cars, a 1960 MG Midget, broke down 30 minutes after I bought it. The $600 repair bill convinced me that I better start learning how to make my own repairs. I have been driving late 60s Volvo Amazons since 1983 and through my relationships with several mechanics, I have learned how to repair or restore 95% of the occasional problems. I can even "hear or feel" a problem with these cars or when they want a tune up. Again, the satisfaction of making a successful repair, "Wow! It worked!" is wonderful.

Too many people I know don't maintain their cars or boats and just buy a new one when there are problems with the current vehicle. Paying someone else to make your repairs doesn't give you any idea of what was the problem or the cause...unless you have a unusually honest mechanic.

I sailed from Long Island to Holland in 2009 and have spent the last few years upgrading the interior and performing cosmetics to the deck and hull. I have a younger wife and two small sons, 9 and 7. I let the boys take as much responsibility in running the boat as they like. I like to let other people take the helm as often as they like. I find when the weather deteriorates and everyone wants to stay in the cabin, I am the one who must be on deck. My cruising is limited to the summer in Northern Europe and during the boys six week summer holiday, we make trips to France, Germany and the UK. I still have all of Scandinavia to explore and more trips to Ireland and the UK will keep me happy for many years to come. As the boys get older, I am hoping that they will want to join me for longer cruises back across the Atlantic, to the Caribbean, East Coast of the US and Canada.

My dream of circumnavigating has fallen way down the to-do list, but with the current piracy problems, I am happy to stay in the North Atlantic.

Some say that the sailing journey is all the fun of reaching a destination, some say that reaching the destination is when the fun begins. I like the whole aspect of cruising. I love being on the water, out of sight of land, I love viewing the passing coastlines when I am inshore and I love exploring the land around my chosen destination. I much prefer looking at land from the water, than looking at water from the land.

I am a music photographer and I wanted to establish myself professionally. I had to forego traveling to foreign lands and sailing long distances. At this point in my life, my career is winding down and I feel free to "take off" without the feeling of something left undone.

Sail what you can, when you can, while you can.
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Old 09-01-2013, 05:25   #104
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Re: Is the Cruising Lifestyle Dying ?

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Originally Posted by Seaworthy Lass View Post
Is there anything to suggest there are less cruisers out here than there were a decade or two ago? I thought numbers were increasing .

The average age of cruisers is probably increasing as the baby boomers are probably the first generation not to consider themselves old at 50. Unlike our parents and grandparents, in our 50's and 60's we are ready to embark on adventures rather than sit in a rocking chair on the porch.

This trend may not continue. Not from perceptions about ageing, but because as Weylan suggested, that spirit of adventure does not seem to be cultivated. I think this is sadly due largely to the real safety concern about sending kids out unsupervised to play in the street for the day.

Unfortunately concerns of 'safety' seem to be taken to the extreme and it is the overriding thought dominating most decisions of the generations following the baby boomers. Safe secure jobs, income, lifestyle, insurance, health care, retirement plans...... Many people spend so much time safeguarding their lives they forget to live a little in the process.
"Risk" (part and parcel of most things exciting and adventurous including cruising) seems to be a dirty word nowadays .

Long live the baby boomers
I dont believe there is any evidence of a safety culture affecting sailing, if one looks over the last 10-15 years at enrolments into dinghy sailing, around Europe, there has been a huge upsurge in interest and participation , slightly tempered by the recession. ( but rebounding). Sure many of these will drop out but a percentage will go on to own and cruise. Equally with teh upsurge in boat ownership, many kids are now exposed to sailing and these will also form a backbone of new owners.

If one looks at France, where sailing is arguably a national sport, there is a huge participation in dinghy sailing, most of Frances top ocean racers started in dinghies.

If anything kids today are in a far riskier environment, pensions arnt available, real wages have fallen, employment protection laws are being rolled back and the welfare state is on the ropes.Its a much more dog eat dog world then 40 years ago, when most had defined benefit pension plans, and secure employment. Arugably the 60s generation was the ONLY generation to land on its feet ( pensions, house prices etc). Today most kids are trying to scrape a living together, find the loan to buy a house etc. Its far harder being a 21 year old today then possible anytime since the war.

Funnily having lived in the US and sailed there ( I know your not in the US) , Id say the lack of dinghy sailing ( in general) and the lack of sailing in the news, means that young people are not big participators and only tend to enter the sport much later in life.

Dave
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Old 09-01-2013, 07:34   #105
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Re: Is the Cruising Lifestyle Dying ?

To the OP not sure what you have against older people if you have anything against them at all or you just can't word your question in a non-offensive way. Cruisers have always been a mix of young and old and it will always be that way. If you like me love the idea of cruising for many years than one thing is sure to happen old age and that is if we are lucky. When you grow up a little more you will look at the same thing but see something totally different. You will be amazed and impressed by the fact that "99lb grandma" can still work the lines. You will find it a motivation thinking if they can still do what they love at that age than so can I! Than you will learn to enjoy the time you spend with those with white hair. I can't tell you how much I have learned even still in the marina from those who you speak of. That would be the first couple you should invite over for sundowners they would be a hoot.
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