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Old 19-06-2015, 07:55   #76
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Re: Is the Caribbean considered "Blue Water"

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Originally Posted by Cap Erict3 View Post
Had a look at the southern ocean on windyty this morning.

Kind of puts the blue water, open ocean, dangerous waters discussion in perspective.


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???

At least down there you can keep going round and round and round… including laterally

I would be far happier in the Southern Ocean than offshore/coastal WSW of Chile in a bad one any day, month, week or year.
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Old 19-06-2015, 08:41   #77
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Re: Is the Caribbean considered "Blue Water"

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Originally Posted by Muckle Flugga View Post
???

At least down there you can keep going round and round and round… including laterally

I would be far happier in the Southern Ocean than offshore/coastal WSW of Chile in a bad one any day, month, week or year.

Isn't this starting to take this discourse to the extreme? I mean there are all sorts of places in the world that are considered coastal cruising that on a bad day would not be the place to go sailing. I mean in the northern part of Vancouver island they have measured waves that were around 100 feet high. Lots of local sailors cruise these same waters during the proper months without any issues but of course it's still coastal waters, isn't it.
If you are sailing in the Caribbean and you want to believe you are sailing offshore then simply believe it and quit waisting your time trying to convince others. So much of this BS is trumpted up to give each of us some special status that someone else doesn't have, who really cares?
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Old 19-06-2015, 08:53   #78
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Re: Is the Caribbean considered "Blue Water"

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Isn't this starting to take this discourse to the extreme? I mean there are all sorts of places in the world that are considered coastal cruising that on a bad day would not be the place to go sailing. I mean in the northern part of Vancouver island they have measured waves that were around 100 feet high. Lots of local sailors cruise these same waters during the proper months without any issues but of course it's still coastal waters, isn't it.
If you are sailing in the Caribbean and you want to believe you are sailing offshore then simply believe it and quit waisting your time trying to convince others. So much of this BS is trumpted up to give each of us some special status that someone else doesn't have, who really cares?
Erm… whoa there Tex. A little presumptuous dontcha think? I sail pretty much globally, so your hostage to fortune was just that.

Don't undertand why you're getting so worked up about it? I agree that the discourse is being taken to the extreme, but that is because it is largely pointles, which is my point. The EC islands are an archipelago dotted across an ocean, and exist in an otherwise fully oceanic environment. However, you are seemingly completely confused in my purpose for saying this, which is frankly just true. The fact is coastal areas of continents are on average and by and large more dangerous than open ocean environments. I have seen a lot of arm waving, table thumping type rhetoric on this thread going on about how "blue water" or "open ocean" is so much more dangerous yada yada yada, but with precious little actual explanation or reasoned content. I have indeed given very precise reasons why on average coastal environments are indeed more dangerous. Your own examples bolster this. And as for "during the proper months", it is still perfectly possible to get your ass whipped in the higher latitudes in the "proper months". Most of my early sailing career was in higher latitude coasts of the North Atlantic. Believe me there is plenty a can of whoop ass suddenly opened during the "clement" months.
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Old 19-06-2015, 09:13   #79
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Re: Is the Caribbean considered "Blue Water"

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Originally Posted by Muckle Flugga View Post
Erm… whoa there Tex. A little presumptuous dontcha think? I sail pretty much globally, so your hostage to fortune was just that.

Don't undertand why you're getting so worked up about it? I agree that the discourse is being taken to the extreme, but that is because it is largely pointles, which is my point. The EC islands are an archipelago dotted across an ocean, and exist in an otherwise fully oceanic environment. However, you are seemingly completely confused in my purpose for saying this, which is frankly just true. The fact is coastal areas of continents are on average and by and large more dangerous than open ocean environments. I have seen a lot of arm waving, table thumping type rhetoric on this thread going on about how "blue water" or "open ocean" is so much more dangerous yada yada yada, but with precious little actual explanation or reasoned content. I have indeed given very precise reasons why on average coastal environments are indeed more dangerous. Your own examples bolster this. And as for "during the proper months", it is still perfectly possible to get your ass whipped in the higher latitudes in the "proper months". Most of my early sailing career was in higher latitude coasts of the North Atlantic. Believe me there is plenty a can of whoop ass suddenly opened during the "clement" months.
We are seeing this in 2 different lights. Right now we are in the Caribbean and to me its similar or the same as coastal cruising for a whole lot of reasons. First and foremost the average passage is day sailing with excellent weather forecasts plus the weather is on average some of the most predictable and nicest we have ever sailed in.

Back to your points that coastal sailing can be more dangerous under certain conditions than offshore sailing. We all know that the danger lies around the hard edges of the ocean which is why those of us that do a lot of ocean crossings always are at our highest alert stations when getting close to land, so I certainly agree with you that the most dangerous places to be when sailing are close to land. That said with todays weather forecasts normal coastal cruising is fairly benign and is carried out by 99% of sailors every year without any major problems.
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Old 19-06-2015, 14:18   #80
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Re: Is the Caribbean considered "Blue Water"

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We are seeing this in 2 different lights. Right now we are in the Caribbean and to me its similar or the same as coastal cruising for a whole lot of reasons. First and foremost the average passage is day sailing with excellent weather forecasts plus the weather is on average some of the most predictable and nicest we have ever sailed in.

Back to your points that coastal sailing can be more dangerous under certain conditions than offshore sailing. We all know that the danger lies around the hard edges of the ocean which is why those of us that do a lot of ocean crossings always are at our highest alert stations when getting close to land, so I certainly agree with you that the most dangerous places to be when sailing are close to land. That said with todays weather forecasts normal coastal cruising is fairly benign and is carried out by 99% of sailors every year without any major problems.
He he. Reminds me of the years I spent in the EC. During the "winter" months I used sometimes to be asked by newcomers about whether I had had the "weather forecast" for that particular day. These were usually charterers fresh from Europe or recent arrivals on the ARC. So, I would just tell them: "Nope, but I can tell you that the wind will be from the NE to the SE, force 4 to 7 ALL DAMN DAY. Later in the afternoon there is a chance of squalls."



And THAT is precisely one of the factors which makes it an Oceanic/BlueWater or whatever you like environment.
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Old 22-06-2015, 13:20   #81
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Re: Is the Caribbean considered "Blue Water"

I Island hopped all the down to Bequia, and all the way back....from florida... in my semi lite disp't IOR Morgan 35 CB sloop in 1979, '80 ish....and back....only, maybe 3... 35 hour sails..each way....However!!!!... at that time....no gps, no loran for me...no radar..no sea going autopilot....only dead reckoning...very few resorts, no rescue if you screwed up...my old vhf was good for 20 miles or so...so it certainly felt like Blue Water...with all the resorts and boat traffic today and lots more commercial and private boats plying everywhere...... and satilites and gps and more human beings and boat traffic everywhere...today...i'd say its much easier, different....than back then in a small boat....the gps chartplotter systems, with picture maps and nav'n at the touch of a few buttons,... is a complete game changer...much easier today.... back then... West Caicos...the jumping off point for south to DR or Haiti...was positively the end of the world...I remember straining to hear every syllable, for the cape romano weather report... ominous sounding,... the forecasters voice always was... next to my receive only SSB....to decide to leave early in the a.m. or wait??....for me..in 1979...that was blue water...
not to mention, then....1/2 the human popul'n of now.....thus 1/2 the boats...1/2 the boat traffic...
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