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Old 18-06-2015, 17:13   #61
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Re: Is the Caribbean considered "Blue Water"

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Originally Posted by Canibul View Post
So, an 18 ft. rowboat would definitely qualify. Since several of them have crossed oceans.
If you row your boat across an Ocean, I will only then agree with you that is worthy of the blue water title. I'll also buy you a beer for your efforts

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There's a guy that sails in and out of Mayreau the locals call 'one man' because he's always alone. Makes sense he sails between the islands on his engineless twentyish ft sailboat, fishing and selling the fish to pay his way. It's pretty rare and wind or sea conditions stop him heading out, usually for the whole day or longer. He probably drops the hook on other islands on his jaunts as well. I don't think there's a need to debate what is or isn't capable of sailing around the Caribbean. If one man can do it so can you
Does Dennis still have his restaurant there?
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Old 18-06-2015, 17:58   #62
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Re: Is the Caribbean considered "Blue Water"

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Of course most people do so refer. But the origin of the reference is definitely to do with the colour of the water, which denotes offshore sailing. Continental waters are rarely that colour. In any case I am happy to accept/concede the colloquial definition, so long as its original meaning is understood.

The Eastern Caribbean islands are an archipelago far from continental waters or continental services. They are pinpricks up through the deep ocean, which otherwise sweeps uninterrupted from West Africa to Central America. I suppose this is a problem like the paradox of the heap and there is no real point in belabouring it too much, but I would be interested in your opinion as to whether sailing among the Marquesas or the Cook Island groups or between the groups of French Polynesia (generally only overnight or so between the major groups) constitutes "coastal" sailing by this (to me somewhat odd and inappropriate) definition?
Your point is well taken about the Marquesas Islands or other groups as sailing among them is like coastal sailing HOWEVER you do have to make one of the longest ocean passages in the world just to get there in the first place.
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Old 18-06-2015, 18:17   #63
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Re: Is the Caribbean considered "Blue Water"

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If you row your boat across an Ocean, I will only then agree with you that is worthy of the blue water title. I'll also buy you a beer for your efforts



Does Dennis still have his restaurant there?

We had a rockin night with Dennis a few nights back. Dragged out the guitar and passed it around the bar. Lots of fun and a great guy!
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Old 18-06-2015, 18:22   #64
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Re: Is the Caribbean considered "Blue Water"

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For the record, and just so there isn't doubt, my defense of the idea that the EC can be considered 'blue water' sailing in no way suggests the OP should not attempt it. Quite the opposite actually, and indeed my wider point is that "blue water" sailing tends on average to be easier and safer than coastal or green/brown/black water!

I hear ya and agree totally muck. Personally I think it's just a term that's evolved into some marketing ploy to confuse and bemuse the punters and doesn't mean much anymore. Next they'll be saying it needs a stateroom to be blue water capable
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Old 18-06-2015, 21:00   #65
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Re: Is the Caribbean considered "Blue Water"

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We had a rockin night with Dennis a few nights back. Dragged out the guitar and passed it around the bar. Lots of fun and a great guy!
Good memories of Dennis' Hidaway. I got to see a Tyson fight on Mayreau back in 1990. Was pretty impressive to get that fight out there, back then. I think just about everyone on the island was in that house that night! Good people.
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Old 18-06-2015, 22:59   #66
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Re: Is the Caribbean considered "Blue Water"

I don't use or find useful the term "blue water" because it isn't precise and means different things to different people. I've only ever heard the term used in this forum and in brochures and ads for boats (along with the also very nebulous "Bristol"),

"Open ocean" specifically means "offshore, out of sight of land, and unable to make safe harbor when the barometer drops" and is a far more useful term. It is the correct opposite of "coastal", meaning within the sight of land or able to make safe harbor when the weather turns.

The depth or color of the water maters not at all, unless it's shallower than your keel.

Island hopping the Caribbean isn't open ocean; the Gulf of Mexico is if you cross it.

As a left-coast sailor I've never crossed the stream, but we cross the San Pedro all the time, which is 2500 feet deep, definitely "blue", and can have 6 foot seas at any time with 12 foot not rare.

It's by no means open ocean.


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Old 19-06-2015, 01:17   #67
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Re: Is the Caribbean considered "Blue Water"

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Cousin and his buddies crossed from Miami in a northerly on jetskis, not fun for them at the time but a funny story after the fact. Puking, sunburn,fuel shortage etc.

So, no, not blue just rough..
Bluewater jetskis?
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Old 19-06-2015, 01:51   #68
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Re: Is the Caribbean considered "Blue Water"

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I don't use or find useful the term "blue water" because it isn't precise and means different things to different people. I've only ever heard the term used in this forum and in brochures and ads for boats (along with the also very nebulous "Bristol"),

"Open ocean" specifically means "offshore, out of sight of land, and unable to make safe harbor when the barometer drops" and is a far more useful term. It is the correct opposite of "coastal", meaning within the sight of land or able to make safe harbor when the weather turns.

The depth or color of the water maters not at all, unless it's shallower than your keel.

Island hopping the Caribbean isn't open ocean; the Gulf of Mexico is if you cross it.

As a left-coast sailor I've never crossed the stream, but we cross the San Pedro all the time, which is 2500 feet deep, definitely "blue", and can have 6 foot seas at any time with 12 foot not rare.

It's by no means open ocean.


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Interesting… you reject the usefulness of the term "blue water" then simply replace it with "open ocean" and proceed to make exactly the same distinctions you previously abjured. You are usually more careful than that.
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Old 19-06-2015, 04:32   #69
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Re: Is the Caribbean considered "Blue Water"

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Interesting… you reject the usefulness of the term "blue water" then simply replace it with "open ocean" and proceed to make exactly the same distinctions you previously abjured. You are usually more careful than that.
Best to just ignore the whole Bluewater bullshit totally, or at least how it's used in the forum. It's all too often used in the "mine is better than yours" ego massaging threads.

At least "open ocean" has not been tainted by insecure people justifying their purchase or by read it all know it all desktop sailors.




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Old 19-06-2015, 04:51   #70
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Re: Is the Caribbean considered "Blue Water"

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Inability to seek/achieve landfall/shelter within 'X' amount of time to avoid approaching storm systems (ie, you're far enough offshore that you will still be at sea past the time window of the 3 to 5 day forecast that you cast off.

This. When you are too far for a forecast.
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Old 19-06-2015, 04:54   #71
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Re: Is the Caribbean considered "Blue Water"

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Best to just ignore the whole Bluewater bullshit totally, or at least how it's used in the forum. It's all too often used in the "mine is better than yours" ego massaging threads.

At least "open ocean" has not been tainted by insecure people justifying their purchase or by read it all know it all desktop sailors.

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Yeah, I can agree with all this. Though "open ocean" still suffers from a version of Sorites paradox (the heap). At least blue water is indeed, and actually, blue.
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Old 19-06-2015, 06:41   #72
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Re: Is the Caribbean considered "Blue Water"

If you read the whole at once like just it is kind of funny 😛

Btw - don't worry about sailing in blue water, worry about the yellow water


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Old 19-06-2015, 06:55   #73
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Re: Is the Caribbean considered "Blue Water"

Mallorca is definitely Blue Water.

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Old 19-06-2015, 07:21   #74
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Re: Is the Caribbean considered "Blue Water"

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Mallorca is definitely Blue Water.

Looks like there are a couple of plastic "charter" type boats doing nicely in Bluewater conditions.
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Old 19-06-2015, 07:52   #75
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Re: Is the Caribbean considered "Blue Water"

Had a look at the southern ocean on windyty this morning.

Kind of puts the blue water, open ocean, dangerous waters discussion in perspective.


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