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Old 14-04-2013, 12:17   #46
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Re: Is it still a Buyer's Market?

It's a little strange right now, I scan the Seattle Craigs list daily, not much in the way of sailboats on there lately and it's nearing boating season. I think people resigned to hang on to their boat after making it through the recession... who knows...
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Old 14-04-2013, 12:22   #47
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Re: Is it still a Buyer's Market?

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Originally Posted by leftbrainstuff View Post
We've looked at over 100 boats and the good ones, as determined by our criteria, that have all sold have been for a 10 - 15% delta to the advertised price. Without exception.

Our data set has been validated by us and is therefore far more trusted than the very messy and noisy data often touted as the industry norm. (It's biased by brokers reported sales prices that we've compared to actual sale prices) Our analysis is statistically valid based on our data set.

Really what we see is that the boats worth buying are worth paying good money for.
If your numbers are that precise and accurate, you've obviously been keeping records. Please publish here.
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Old 14-04-2013, 12:28   #48
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Re: Is it still a Buyer's Market?

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Just my opinion...Boats still are at an all time low. talking to a few brokers at the boat show this week, I was told that the prices are still low but boats are selling much quicker than before. This will translate into a thinner inventory at which time, supply and demand will again drive the prices in an upward trend. It stand to reason if the housing market is now recovering (mine is up 20% this last year) and unemployment is dropping, that the luxury items will follow suit right behind them.
If you were waiting to buy...this is probably the time to do it.
I've got to to believe this is a pretty good time to buy. Those waiting to sell are overlooking the costs to maintain and store a boat.

I've seen boats that seemed to be listed at a fair price, but when I looked at the boats there were issues. It's as if the owners don't want to be associated with their boats any more, or at least don't want to put the money in to make them right. There is a "deferred maintenance" cost that they hope a buyer will overlook.
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Old 14-04-2013, 13:34   #49
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Re: Is it still a Buyer's Market?

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Agree & add location and price range. There are probably around 50 boats in the brokerage at Torresens in Muskegon. Many boats have not been in the water for several years. This is common around the Great Lakes.
Was just over at Torresens a few weeks ago checking out the Ingrid and a few others.

Overall, Prices don't seem to reflect the 'new reality'

Craigslist and EBay however seem to reveal the real market.
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Old 14-04-2013, 13:39   #50
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Re: Is it still a Buyer's Market?

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Those waiting to sell are overlooking the costs to maintain and store a boat.

There is a "deferred maintenance" cost that they hope a buyer will overlook.
Yes...these 2 points have always been true. The broker is doing the seller a great dis-service by not getting on him to maintain the boat and at least make it presentable.
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Old 14-04-2013, 13:43   #51
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Re: Is it still a Buyer's Market?

"good time to buy" isn't a lot to do with the purchase price is it?
For most all boats, NEVER is the best time to buy, financially.
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Old 14-04-2013, 14:09   #52
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Re: Is it still a Buyer's Market?

There's a Cape George 36 for sale in the Seattle area. $15000. Reporttedly it need a new engine and has a couple soft spots in the deck. If yo figure $15k for the engine and $5k to fix the deck... what a boat for $35k!
1974 Cape George 36 Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com
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Old 14-04-2013, 17:49   #53
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Re: Is it still a Buyer's Market?

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Originally Posted by leftbrainstuff View Post
We've looked at over 100 boats and the good ones, as determined by our criteria, that have all sold have been for a 10 - 15% delta to the advertised price. Without exception.

Our data set has been validated by us and is therefore far more trusted than the very messy and noisy data often touted as the industry norm. (It's biased by brokers reported sales prices that we've compared to actual sale prices) Our analysis is statistically valid based on our data set.

Really what we see is that the boats worth buying are worth paying good money for.
What I see is that boats are listed and then repeatedly reduced in price UNTIL they sell, usually at a 10-15% discount from the last listed price, OR they are listed forever until someone agrees to buy them at or near the list price.

It does not mean that the list price of any given boat is right or wrong. It only means that a price for a boat is determinable AFTER the sale is complete - not before, and it certainly is not determinable from the asking price.
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Old 14-04-2013, 18:03   #54
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Re: Is it still a Buyer's Market?

With no empirical data to base a judgment (which doesn't have inherent biases), there is no defensible answer. It is fun though reading how some people think they know.
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Old 14-04-2013, 18:10   #55
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Re: Is it still a Buyer's Market?

Oh please!
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Old 14-04-2013, 20:21   #56
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Re: Is it still a Buyer's Market?

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Oh please!
No problem. Glad to help you see things objectively.
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Old 14-04-2013, 20:30   #57
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Re: Is it still a Buyer's Market?

earlier I publish the test sticks in regards to number of units sold average sales price. there's another report that I find very interesting that I put together for home sales. I call it 60 day rule. It states at home will go under contract within 60 days being priced correctly. This rule occurs over 90 percent of the time homes. I pull numbers from home sales starting at $200,000 going up to 1.25 million dollars.in the report I study the history of pricing the only commonality that the homes have when I initially police report is that every single home has over 400 days on the market when I study the history of pricing the commonality that occurs over 90 percent of the time is that the homes go under contract within 60 days of and adjustment to their price. I know that homes are not boats but with the limited the Statistical data that we actually have on boats I find it interesting to put a comparison between the trends based on the information I have regarding trends.
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Old 14-04-2013, 21:03   #58
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Re: Is it still a Buyer's Market?

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earlier I publish the test sticks in regards to number of units sold average sales price. there's another report that I find very interesting that I put together for home sales. I call it 60 day rule. It states at home will go under contract within 60 days being priced correctly. This rule occurs over 90 percent of the time homes. I pull numbers from home sales starting at $200,000 going up to 1.25 million dollars.in the report I study the history of pricing the only commonality that the homes have when I initially police report is that every single home has over 400 days on the market when I study the history of pricing the commonality that occurs over 90 percent of the time is that the homes go under contract within 60 days of and adjustment to their price. I know that homes are not boats but with the limited the Statistical data that we actually have on boats I find it interesting to put a comparison between the trends based on the information I have regarding trends.
"I know that homes are not boats but with the limited the Statistical data that we actually have on boats I find it interesting to put a comparison between the trends based on the information I have regarding trends."


Yet without any data on boats, correlating the data is impossible to do, isn't it?
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Old 14-04-2013, 21:54   #59
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Re: Is it still a Buyer's Market?

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"I know that homes are not boats but with the limited the Statistical data that we actually have on boats I find it interesting to put a comparison between the trends based on the information I have regarding trends."


Yet without any data on boats, correlating the data is impossible to do, isn't it?
"Yet without any data on boats, correlating the data is impossible to do, isn't it?"

I agree. This is exactly why I ask for actual data earlier in the thread. My posting of data is to prove that I will not speculate on what I cannot prove. I want to see actual numbers, not here say and opinion.
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Old 14-04-2013, 23:34   #60
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Re: Is it still a Buyer's Market?

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"Yet without any data on boats, correlating the data is impossible to do, isn't it?"

I agree. This is exactly why I ask for actual data earlier in the thread. My posting of data is to prove that I will not speculate on what I cannot prove. I want to see actual numbers, not here say and opinion.
I don't know how long you've been at this, but the answer to your question is that it does not exist on a large, universal scale.

Some brokers are large enough to have that data. Most brokers are very small and only have a few sales a month - at least the once I've met.

I used to get real sales figures from Catamarans.com via e-mail, but they recently stopped doing that. It only lasted a few months.

My very limited experience with brokers is that they will hint to you what you will have to pay to get a boat, and if/when they think a boat is overpriced, even if they are the one selling it. They aren't supposed to do that of course, but their main interest in making a deal work, not dragging along unworkable deals forever.
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