Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 30-12-2014, 02:22   #1
Marine Service Provider
 
Factor's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Brisbane Australia
Boat: Corsair Dash MKII
Posts: 4,084
Is "hiking" illegal

The practice of hiking or hanging over the side of a boat particularly monohull sail boat is pretty old and happens every time I sail past a mono racing to weather or even beam reaching. Some guys get carried away and have all their body wrapped around just the one life line and everything else outside.

So I was talking with some regulatory folk in Australia today - seeing what silly new rules they may be dreaming up and they raised an issue with me that under most state legislation in Australia they consider any skipper who lets crew hang outside the boat without a tether and PFD is probably committing an offence of failing discharge the general safety obligation. The issue of rubber banding spinnakers was also re-raised (thats clearly an offence under MARPOL). SO it seems there may be some stress afoot for those that like to/need to hike. Never do it on my boat but I am in the minority.
__________________

__________________
Factor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-12-2014, 02:25   #2
Certifiable Refitter/Senior Wannbe
 
Wotname's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: South of 43 S, Australia
Boat: Van DeStat Super Dogger 31'
Posts: 7,331
Re: Is "hiking" illegal

Lordy lordy lordy, please tell me this is not going to happen...
__________________

__________________
All men dream: but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangereous men, for they may act their dreams with open eyes, to make it possible. T.E. Lawrence
Wotname is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-12-2014, 03:06   #3
********* Emeritus
 
SaucySailoress's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 8,236
Re: Is "hiking" illegal

Last I heard, it was race legal to have no more than 50% of your body mass hanging out (of the boat that is). But I wouldn't be surprised if they change that and decide we all have to wear seatbelts and hard harts while they're at it...
__________________

SaucySailoress is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-12-2014, 03:23   #4
Marine Service Provider
 
Factor's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Brisbane Australia
Boat: Corsair Dash MKII
Posts: 4,084
Re: Is "hiking" illegal

Quote:
Originally Posted by SaucySailoress View Post
Last I heard, it was race legal to have no more than 50% of your body mass hanging out (of the boat that is). But I wouldn't be surprised if they change that and decide we all have to wear seatbelts and hard harts while they're at it...
Its not about what is "race legal" Race committees rules can't override the various state Marine Safety Acts in Australia.
__________________
Factor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-12-2014, 03:27   #5
Registered User
 
UNCIVILIZED's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Up the mast, looking for clean wind.
Boat: Currently Shopping, & Heavily in LUST!
Posts: 5,629
Re: Is "hiking" illegal

I absolutely can't see hiking going away. You'll almost literally have throngs of people with torches & pitch forks going after whoever outlaws it. Not to mention that pretty much every racing boat out there is designed from the outset with weight on the rail as part of it's calculations.

On kites, & banding. You can use wool (well, up to a certain boat size), but it's not even a fraction as quick to affix to the sails. And on most boats, the kites HAVE to be banded, or you'd never get them properly hoisted.
If something that big fills up with wind when it's only 1/2 or 2/3 of the way up to the hounds, you have a MAJOR problem on your hands. The kind that causes damage in the 4-5 digit range $ wise, & gets folks hurt.

The whole proposal sounds like someone trying to further their political career, by employing the standard ploy of "it's for the environment", or "it's for their own safety". Anyone ever notice how it's not called "Global Warming" any more, but rather "Climate Change". And that thankfully a certain "famous" spokesman about it has finally shut up (more or less).

The last time I looked, the Skipper of a Vessel is responsible for safety & everything related there to. As well as EVERYTHING which transpires onboard (or so it said the last time I checked, & was taught prior to earning a commission).
__________________

The Uncommon Thing, The Hard Thing, The Important Thing (in Life): Making Promises to Yourself, And Keeping Them.
UNCIVILIZED is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-12-2014, 03:36   #6
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Seattle
Boat: Cal 40
Posts: 2,401
Images: 7
Re: Is "hiking" illegal

Quote:
Originally Posted by SaucySailoress View Post
Last I heard, it was race legal to have no more than 50% of your body mass hanging out (of the boat that is). But I wouldn't be surprised if they change that and decide we all have to wear seatbelts and hard harts while they're at it...
A lot more than 50% going on. I think the OP is talking about a difference of opinion between what is legal by racing rules and what government officials think is law.

Not too long ago people were loosening the lower lifeline so you could get even further out, but the rules tightened up on that practice.

Picture from:
RULE 49: Is Gut Hiking Illegal? >> Scuttlebutt Sailing News

I think keelboat hiking is dumb, check out the above link about pain and nerve damage. Put trapezes on if you're going to do anything. A couple of years ago a sport boat owner was complaining that local PHRF rules did not allow the trapezes that came with the boat, that it was unsafe. He pointed out that if a lower lifeline goes, the entire crew is overboard. If a trapeze wire broke he only loses one crew. Which do you think is safer?

http://www.sailing.org/tools/documen...20132016Final-[13376].pdf
49.2 When lifelines are required by the class rules or the sailing
instructions they shall be taut, and competitors shall not position any
part of their torsos outside them, except briefly to perform a
necessary task. On boats equipped with upper and lower lifelines, a
competitor sitting on the deck facing outboard with his waist inside
the lower lifeline may have the upper part of his body outside the
upper lifeline. If the class rules do not specify the material or
minimum diameter of lifelines, they shall comply with the
corresponding specifications in the ISAF Offshore Special
Regulations.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	49-steve-jost.jpg
Views:	150
Size:	153.2 KB
ID:	94497  
__________________
cal40john is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-12-2014, 04:01   #7
Registered User
 
UNCIVILIZED's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Up the mast, looking for clean wind.
Boat: Currently Shopping, & Heavily in LUST!
Posts: 5,629
Re: Is "hiking" illegal

Funny, I was just wondering about the "legality" of trapezes under these "laws" myself. Especially given that so many of the boats that use them were invented in Australia.
__________________

The Uncommon Thing, The Hard Thing, The Important Thing (in Life): Making Promises to Yourself, And Keeping Them.
UNCIVILIZED is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-12-2014, 04:12   #8
Marine Service Provider
 
Factor's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Brisbane Australia
Boat: Corsair Dash MKII
Posts: 4,084
Re: Is "hiking" illegal

Its not the Hiking itself that they appear to be concerned with, its the failure to be wearing a PFD and failure to be tethered, people on a beach cat or similar small boat on a trapeze are clearly tethered and if wearing a PFD would appear to be not in their area of concern?
__________________
Factor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-12-2014, 06:01   #9
Senior Cruiser
 
Sailmonkey's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Houston
Boat: '76 Allied Seawind II, 32'
Posts: 5,780
Re: Is "hiking" illegal

So much for the fun left in the sport......


Sent from my iPhone using Cruisers Sailing Forum
__________________
Sailmonkey is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 30-12-2014, 07:00   #10
Senior Cruiser
 
Blue Stocking's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: St. Georges, Bda
Boat: Rhodes Reliant 41ft
Posts: 4,117
Re: Is "hiking" illegal

--the "upwind" guys would tell you it gets the brawn out of the way, so that the brain can do their job.
__________________
so many projects--so little time !!
Blue Stocking is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-12-2014, 07:29   #11
Senior Cruiser
 
FSMike's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Bahamas/Florida
Boat: Solaris Sunstar 36' catamaran
Posts: 2,654
Images: 5
Re: Is "hiking" illegal

Thank God the safety rule makers haven't turned their attention to Bahamian sloop racing.
"Out on de pry mon - but don't forget your harness and pfd."
That mental image is just too funny.
__________________
Sail Fast Live Slow
FSMike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-12-2014, 07:58   #12
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 4,881
Re: Is "hiking" illegal

Personally don't care but this may be one of those rules that won't be enforced unless something happens.

Boat his a big wave, a lifeline breaks, guy smacks his head on the hull side on the way down and drowns. The authorities have to pass blame so captain gets hammered for operating the boat in a dangerous manner. (It's like if you rear end someone, you were by definition following too closely even though they never would have pulled you over for it.)
__________________
valhalla360 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-12-2014, 08:30   #13
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 242
Re: Is "hiking" illegal

"Never do it on my boat but I am in the minority"

I'd hate to be crewing on a cat whose owner insisted that I hang over the weather rail.
__________________

__________________
jannw is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
legal

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Winch Handles - West Marine "White Label" price hiking Hermanns Deck hardware: Rigging, Sails & Hoisting 1 26-03-2013 13:26
Hitch Hiking from Puerto Rico to Venezuela ondi Atlantic & the Caribbean 5 23-07-2011 13:21
Crew Available: Hitch-Hiking from America to French Polynesia in 2011 karine-maxime Crew Archives 1 23-06-2010 20:05



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 04:31.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.