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Old 07-12-2010, 07:09   #31
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Everything is never the same as it used to be.........

My take is that the nature of what "cruising" can be about has changed radically over the last 25 odd years. For many it hasn't changed, but for others the conveniances of the modern world both onboard and equally importantly ashore are resources that have enabled them to undertake voyages that in prior times they would not have contemplated - for enjoyment reasons if not for any other. My top 5 modern game changing conveniances are GPS, FEDEX, Marinas, Internet and Jumbo Jets. Even if you don't use them.

Time was that the prudent small boat voyager needed to carry 99% of what he may need onboard and that had a major impact on choice of vessel (as well as options simply being limited in the boat design choices available - a fully loaded Beneteau being still a twinkle in an eye )...........and that approach had a more limited circle of attraction. Of course plenty of places in the world where that tortoise shell approach would still be a good idea. They are just not in the same location they used to be. and the places where not needed have expanded radically.

My gut feeling is that if Sir Francis Chichester had been offered a 50' Beneteau with all mod cons in the 1960's he would have taken yer arm off - especially half way around And I suspect his Blog would not have included him waving his Bikini at the readers
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Old 07-12-2010, 07:24   #32
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Being very new to the cruising life I don't know if there is a decline or not, or whats normal or not. What I do know is we just got our boat from a couple that were cruisers for years that had to give it up do to the economy, in fact our boat sat on the hard for the last 3 years only being worked on with hopes of them getting out there again. They sold us Samara because they relized time was slipping by not knowing if and when they were going to use her again. Not sure if money was as much an issue as the idea of knowing she was just sitting unused .

We seem to be a little younger then most of the others we meet and I can see where not haveing 3 game systems and evey gaget under the sun might turn off the younger generation to crusing but i'm the type that dosn't need or care for that type of life style and cruising with just the basics suit my just fine. ( hey my newest car was a 1967 with only an am radio, gagets just frustrat me)
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Old 07-12-2010, 08:16   #33
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But look on the bright side, you get to make "all" the decisions. No arguments about use of storage space, how many tools/spares you really need, etc. etc. That special someone comes with strings attached. I have a spouse and like it that way but there are trade off.
Doodles

So true. That's why I sail alone most of the time. My partner of 28 years won't let me do a bareboat charter. Something about me getting into "Captain mode". I have no idea what she is talking about. So once or twice a year I am resigned to sitting on a crewed charter boat (usually a Cat) sipping a beer or boat drink while someone else is fixing the engine, head, or flakey bilge pump and another cooks meals and makes drinks for us. To get along, go along I say. But, on a number of these boats I notice that there are these little items I would never have on my boat when cruising. Like a glass jar full of shells. Decorative Conch shells, or pieces of driftwood about. I'm pretty sure it was not the Captain's idea to put these decorative touches on board. I just look at them and see things that are going to break, cut someone or scratch the nicely finished cabin sole if they land there in a heavy sea. I just keep quiet and sip my beer knowing I won't have to clean this stuff up when it does.
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Old 07-12-2010, 09:18   #34
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Quote: "As the economy squeezes everyone, you will find that the middle class will get squeezed out of the cruising lifestyle. The very rich will continue as long as it is fashionable. The dedicated cruisers and liveaboards will ratchet down their lifestyle and make whatever changes necessary to live their constrained dreams."

I have to agree with this statement, unfair as it may seem, everything about sailing is becoming more and more expensive and it will end up in a situation where only the independently wealthy will be able to go cruising ...... as much as I would like to go, I feel that I can no longer afford it.
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Old 07-12-2010, 11:29   #35
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Originally Posted by Vic de Beer View Post
Quote: "As the economy squeezes everyone, you will find that the middle class will get squeezed out of the cruising lifestyle. The very rich will continue as long as it is fashionable. The dedicated cruisers and liveaboards will ratchet down their lifestyle and make whatever changes necessary to live their constrained dreams."

I have to agree with this statement, unfair as it may seem, everything about sailing is becoming more and more expensive and it will end up in a situation where only the independently wealthy will be able to go cruising ...... as much as I would like to go, I feel that I can no longer afford it.
as for strings--sometimes those are ok. depends on the individuals involved.

as for the cost of cruising--yes--will become prohibitive as long as the MARINE label is observed--is a ripoff, in many instances. connections?? make new ones. wiring?? rewire the item. cost is relative, and fabrication is the way to go unless you are one of those who doesnt care about the rising bottom line.

my boat is like my car--OLD yet not really decrepit-- lol--just looks that way s as not to attract bad folks's eyes--AINT SHINY..LOL....and is readily repaired...something folks who pan this marque dont even realize-- everything is available and reachable and repairable ...LOL...try that with a bendy toy or hunter or whatever newer plastic toy....i dont need a neonatal monkey to get into tiny spaces upside down to fix stuff or inspect things. i dont NEED to call for repairman every time my airconditioner fails me..LOL... what a/c!!?? wont have one.i prefer the flow thru ventilation, myself. is cleaner.less to break. also more space for real items i might want to carry -- like spare parts for engine ... like 4 dingies..or stuff i want to bring-- pots and pans, what few i own, and items i might want that i know i cannot find elsewhere--heck-i even have room for 2 crew!! or 3 if i like the strings..LOL my boat is like the 1955 chevy--"reliable" and solid. no frills .plainwrap.
oh , and i dont have a house somewhere in whereverville for a fallback .... what i have is under my feets...and on a mooring in sd-- as i have 2 boats...(eeps)
this market problem is not gonna get any better in near future. those who have funding to sail will.. the rest will either fabricate or leave water....or whatever is needed for survival.
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Old 07-12-2010, 12:29   #36
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I don't know about other areas, but the Gulf coast has been in a slow decline for over 30 years. Everything is old and crumbling. Shoreside fueling stations have mostly either gone out of business or cater only to fishing fleets and crew boats. Increased regs, fees, taxes, and total lack of maintenance on infrastructure have driven many from the area. The only new marina I know of is now in bankruptcy. Hurricanes and muddy water from runoff, has taken most of the fun out of pulling up to a dock only to find at best a few decrepit shrimp boats tied to rotting pilings. New fish limits I.E. half a fish is the limit, or 1 fish per boat per day has made recreational fishing useless. Things change not only for the better. My guess is there are still sailers out there, they just moved to more friendly places.
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Old 07-12-2010, 13:40   #37
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I don't know about other areas, but the Gulf coast has been in a slow decline for over 30 years. Everything is old and crumbling. Shoreside fueling stations have mostly either gone out of business or cater only to fishing fleets and crew boats. Increased regs, fees, taxes, and total lack of maintenance on infrastructure have driven many from the area. The only new marina I know of is now in bankruptcy. Hurricanes and muddy water from runoff, has taken most of the fun out of pulling up to a dock only to find at best a few decrepit shrimp boats tied to rotting pilings. New fish limits I.E. half a fish is the limit, or 1 fish per boat per day has made recreational fishing useless. Things change not only for the better. My guess is there are still sailers out there, they just moved to more friendly places.
i just got back from cruising a near year in gulf of mexico. i didnt run into any limit on my one per day fish catching nor did i find the lack of brand new marinas a problem. we found an old one with no fees for docking. there are nice fuel docks at properly spaced intervals. we sailed from slidell, la to dry tortugas and back 3 times and enjoyed so much i am trying to get my own boat there. we made it to tortugas one of the three times sailing ...ENJOYED the entire area for the year i was there--didnt find the problems if which you write anywhere.
we did find lightning and thunder and awesome friendly folks with good times and fun-- hard work in storms sailing, but is excellent experience.
all in all--i LOVED the gulf and will go back in a heartbeat.
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Old 07-12-2010, 22:09   #38
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I have owned my own home, debt free, since my early 20's . Couldn't have done that had my home been a house. The money I save by living on a boat ,instead of land, has enabled me to cruise on a month's wages per year most of my life.
Don't see the logic in giving up something which costs a fraction as much to own , such as a boat, for something which costs far more to own, such as a house, when you are short of money.
Where's the logic?
When I was in my 20's, there were a lot of 20 's people who were living on boats . Now they appear to be living in dumpsters and under bridges, despite boats being far cheaper, in terms of wages, than they were back then.
Where's the logic?
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Old 07-12-2010, 22:50   #39
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The general concensus out here is that Australia is exspensive and hard work. When you can arrive in Malaysia and they give you a 90 day visa for free {with a smile} the thought of going to Australia and getting charged a small fortune for things like termites "yes sorry sir we will have to fly a dog up from Townsville to check your boat for termites thats $600 ...All our dogs business class.

Look I'm a proud Aussie i love this country ,but as a cruiser uinless you are well heeled give it a miss.

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Tom if your going to run the country down at least write facts not fiction. The termite inspection is for yachts being imported not cruising. It is applied in cases where the boat has extensive wooden interiors, older style boats. Australia is what it is because of many of the rules and regulations, yes sometimes they can be annoying and seemingly not needed and no doubt some are but I have travelled to a lot of the world and still think it is a great place to live. Australia is a safe place to travel and live if you don't like it as they say P off.
I happen to like the US and its people even though they made me travel 2000kms to Sydney and back to Brisbane just to have a ten minute interview at the US Embassy to gain a Visa. Why did I need the Visa? Because I was travelling through the US to Mexico on a one way ticket and had to stop over one night in LA not transit. The trip was to buy a yacht to sail back in so one way ticket only required. No Mexico did not care so maybe I should live in Mexico
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Old 08-12-2010, 02:20   #40
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Tom if your going to run the country down at least write facts not fiction. The termite inspection is for yachts being imported not cruising. It is applied in cases where the boat has extensive wooden interiors, older style boats. Australia is what it is because of many of the rules and regulations, yes sometimes they can be annoying and seemingly not needed and no doubt some are but I have travelled to a lot of the world and still think it is a great place to live. Australia is a safe place to travel and live if you don't like it as they say P off.
I happen to like the US and its people even though they made me travel 2000kms to Sydney and back to Brisbane just to have a ten minute interview at the US Embassy to gain a Visa. Why did I need the Visa? Because I was travelling through the US to Mexico on a one way ticket and had to stop over one night in LA not transit. The trip was to buy a yacht to sail back in so one way ticket only required. No Mexico did not care so maybe I should live in Mexico
I think there is middle ground here. We're all proud Australians and Tom did say as much, but that doesn't mean we can't be critical of local beaurocratic idiocy.

To your credit meyermm, you've done what many of us are still dreaming of doing, so can speak from experience, but the fact remains that Australia is much tougher on cruisers than many other countries, according to cruisers visiting here.

Also, there is a new directive/policy from AQIS, coming into effect right now, that even requires strict application of their regs to Aussie registered/based yachts. So if you sail out of here to the South Pacific for more than 3 months (cummulative???), you can be put through the same process on your return as if you were sailing in for the first time! And that can happen every time you go sailing for 3+ months and want to bring your Aussie boat home.
I think there is a something about it in the latest Cruising Helmsman.

Australia is riddled with termites already, so I don't know what the big deal is with termites unless they are concerned about species we don't already have.
I could understand other countries being worried about boats arriving there after time in Australia, but they don't seem to. So, is our beloved AQIS maybe a touch paranoid?
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Old 08-12-2010, 03:03   #41
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Back on the subject, if you go to the Puddle jump site you will see that the 2010 numbers looked very healthy.
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Old 08-12-2010, 05:00   #42
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as for the cost of cruising--yes--will become prohibitive as long as the MARINE label is observed--is a ripoff, in many instances. connections?? make new ones. wiring?? rewire the item. cost is relative, and fabrication is the way to go unless you are one of those who doesnt care about the rising bottom line.
AMEN to that. Just goto your local chandelry and look at common hardware items, hose, brackets, clamps, etc. Usually 2 or 3 times the price you'd pay in a local hardware store!!

As for the point about many people not being able to afford it, it's all relative. It's really still down to what the individual/s is willing to put up with in terms of comfort, etc. You do not need a 100,000+ boat with aircon and all the toys to go cruising. There are many posts on this site from people who own boats worth less than a second hand car that enjoy the lifestyle quite comfortably. Sure, you need some money in the bank for emergencies but you certainly don't need to be 'rich'.

I know an old Tukish guy who is now 60. He's been cruising since he was 18 and had never had a proper job in his life! He just gets by by either bartering, helping out local fishermen or doing the odd charter and he has survived pretty well. Now that guy has some stories to tell!
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Old 08-12-2010, 05:41   #43
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Also, there is a new directive/policy from AQIS, coming into effect right now, that even requires strict application of their regs to Aussie registered/based yachts. So if you sail out of here to the South Pacific for more than 3 months (cummulative???), you can be put through the same process on your return as if you were sailing in for the first time! And that can happen every time you go sailing for 3+ months and want to bring your Aussie boat home.
I think there is a something about it in the latest Cruising Helmsman.
The subject was cruising numbers dwindling not importing a boat into Australia there is a difference. Most foreign not Australian cruisers are only passing through not importing their boat. The ones that avoid us using the excuse of our regulations seem to forget that we are not a third world country. Having spent six to 12mnths cruising the Pacific and stopping off in small Island nations with little regulation they need to remember that Australia is not one of those. Iam sure if I took a boat to the US/Canada/France/England etc and wished to stay long term I would be hit with similar rules and regulations regarding the boat even if I was a National of the country. Hopefully some will input some of those regulations from first hand.
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Old 08-12-2010, 05:42   #44
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AMEN to that. Just goto your local chandelry and look at common hardware items, hose, brackets, clamps, etc. Usually 2 or 3 times the price you'd pay in a local hardware store!!
I hear this argument all the time and to a degree it is probably true. But you are not always comparing apples to apples, sometimes there is a difference in quality between something made for the marine environment and the typical hardware store item. When it comes to hose clamps for my thru-hull hoses, I want the best money can buy whether it comes from a hardware store or a marine chandlery. Personally, I find a lot of crap in the hardware stores these days.
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Old 08-12-2010, 06:07   #45
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The subject was cruising numbers dwindling not importing a boat into Australia there is a difference. True. But I made no mention of importing into Australia other than to acknowledge your experience in doing it.
I was more citing the new regs as a new obstacle to Aussie cruisers and another example of the challenges of being a cruiser in Australia. Hence dwindling numbers.

Iam sure if I took a boat to the US/Canada/France/England etc and wished to stay long term I would be hit with similar rules and regulations regarding the boat even if I was a National of the country. Hopefully some will input some of those regulations from first hand.
I'd be interested in this input too.
Every year huge numbers of USA yachts go to and from the Caribbean/Mexico/S.America, many with timber masts even. I suspect they have an easier time of it than it looks like we will have here.
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