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Old 18-12-2010, 14:47   #271
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Could you elaborate on the other uses thanks (very interested)
As an example.........

This last couple of years in Everett WA, the Port of Everett has torn out an older boat yard and supply houses to build waterfront condos. Although, they did build an additional NEW marina for 40' and above and a smaller boat yard up stream a bit, which replaced a big old warehouse.

But when I was in Marina Del Rey, CA about 10 years ago they were tearing out smaller slips to put in larger ones. The condo owners there were complaining about the junky small boats along the walkway.
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Old 18-12-2010, 15:22   #272
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I believe the bell curve of boat volume in cruising sailboats is visibly changing from 28-38 foot peak to an increase at both ends...smaller and larger vessel lengths. The addition of fiberglass as a boat material in the 60-70's has extended the life of boats - making the introduction of new boats less. The cost per unit volume ft3 has also changed up due in part to the decline of currency value, addition of new features and increase in raw cost of materials. Cruising boats are is not immune to these dynamic changes.

I just completed a research project for a client which confirmed older marinas here in the USA, (and I think also in other more developed locations), are changing to other land use purposes to extract best value and highest investment return. It is expensive to cruise.

It takes a special person to want to throw off the lines, spend months at sea and cruise to distant ports and seas. Is this person profile in decline? No. What is changing are the costs, the time available and the personal demands on shore.

If connectivity to the internet could be equal to shore, there would be more telecommuters who would work from the boat. Now, I am not saying that staying connected to the world is a "need", nor even "desirable", but it is a factor limiting people's balance of time away, to daily life.

I believe the number of cruising boats in sailing marinas on a typical weekday confirm the desire is there, but either the funds, time, or both are keeping them tied up or limited to weekend excursions.
Thank you for your post sounds like some real research for a change. I too would be interested in much of what you found.
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Old 18-12-2010, 16:12   #273
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Could you elaborate on the other uses thanks (very interested)

There is one in the Tampa Bay area that used to be the Bahia Beach Marina. Regular stuff - lift, store, fuel, slips - It was bought out and closed to be turned into condos with the ability to also purchase slips.

I think it has fallen apart with the "housing bubble" stuff but that was the plan.

I also think there are many marinas in the Tampa Bay area that had the same plan.

Bahia Beach Marina - CLOSED - Ruskin, FL
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Old 18-12-2010, 17:55   #274
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Could you elaborate on the other uses thanks (very interested)
Waterfont residential. You can charge more for a water view even though it cost you nothing to build. $$$$$$$$$$$
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Old 18-12-2010, 18:41   #275
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Waterfont residential. You can charge more for a water view even though it cost you nothing to build. $$$$$$$$$$$
When I'm king, no one will be able to build on the ocean side of any street, or whatever the case may be, around the world.

The view and the land belongs to all of us in my realm.

And it will only rain at night.

And younger women will find me quite attractive.

Jus sayin'.
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Old 18-12-2010, 20:02   #276
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There is one in the Tampa Bay area that used to be the Bahia Beach Marina. Regular stuff - lift, store, fuel, slips - It was bought out and closed to be turned into condos with the ability to also purchase slips. I think it has fallen apart with the "housing bubble" stuff but that was the plan.
And the same even way down here. Port Adelaide remained untouched till a few years ago; a bit derelict I guess as port areas tend to be from time to time but still with lots of original colonial-era buildings, slips and boatyards which date back to 1836, and the charming, working class Port Adelaide Sailing Club.

Well, the condo plans with waterside cafes and wine bars and walk-on berths etc arrived (virtually identical everywhere) and the boatyards and slips and sailing club were all removed - bulldozed.

The first of the numerous condos went up but then the economic meltdown of 2008 happened, nothing sold, the plans all but abandoned... and that cleared land is now just hectares of dirt blowin' in the wind.

In the other metroplitan clubs and marinas - all walk-on berths only - small and untidy (!) boats (read non-plastic usually) are often turned away. So those boats, along with very big boats for which walk-on berth fees are prohibitive, tend to end up on chain moorings at our club.

The demise of the traditional boatyard and diverse fleets and mooring options is of course a trend worth resisting - although it often seems a bit like trying to hold back the tide.
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Old 19-12-2010, 07:45   #277
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And when did backpackers become an economic tourist boom? Hell, those folks are even cheaper than sailors any day.
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I don't reckon that your average cruiser, who can afford to buy and maintain a blue-water crusing boat, is going to spend any less than your average European backpacker on a gap-year holiday, who get welcomed into this country with open arms. Most visiting cruisers I have met (and I have met quite a few, including Jim and Ann Cate, who struck me as wonderful people) seem to have more care and appreciation for Australia and it's peculiar environmental issues than the average British yob, drinking and partying his way around the backpacker hostels.
So you know very little about Australia that may explain why you have a difficulty in understanding meyermm. Inform yourself and be NICE this Thread is not.
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Old 19-12-2010, 08:12   #278
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So you know very little about Australia that may explain why you have a difficulty in understanding meyermm. Inform yourself and be NICE this Thread is not.
"... difficulty in understanding..?"

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Old 19-12-2010, 16:51   #279
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So you know very little about Australia that may explain why you have a difficulty in understanding meyermm. Inform yourself and be NICE this Thread is not.
Perhaps I am being particularly dense, but I have absolutely no idea what point you are trying to make here and why? Please humour me with additional explanation. You think I know very little about Australia? On what basis are you making this claim? I'd hazard a guess that I have seen more of it than most.

I don't think that I have any difficulty understanding meyermm. On the subject of this thread, I just disagree with his opinion, is all. And there is nothing wrong with that, either. I don't like the fact that he calls people "morons" for no particular reason than I can see, but I'm not a mod, so there isn't much I can do about it... which brings me to my final point:

Please don't presume to tell me what I should and shouldn't do. "Nice" is very much in the eye of the beholder. I'm not the one throwing the ad hominem epithets here. If the moderators see fit to moderate, I, of course, accept their judgement. Otherwise presume that I am "self censoring" according to my own definitions of nicety.
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Old 19-12-2010, 22:18   #280
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Lucky Buga.... I'm just looking to get Mobile....
Not talking any of those fancy long range systems just one of those USB sticks that work within mobile phone reception. The last one was disabled after I did not recharge it for six months so I am looking for a better company/plan. Just enough to keep in touch coastal cruising; at least we have half decent mobile reception over here.

I will make sure I give some sort of description of the hospitality and facilities wherever I visit.
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Old 20-12-2010, 02:40   #281
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So you know very little about Australia that may explain why you have a difficulty in understanding meyermm. Inform yourself and be NICE this Thread is not.

You're meyermm's mum, aren't you? Go on... admitt it.
You can tell us. We won't take it out on him...
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Old 20-12-2010, 06:24   #282
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And now back to the topic at hand...........

1) Has anyone used the screw down moorings that seems to be the end of needing to hauling a 2 ton concrete mushroom to the water with 10 fathoms of 1" chain?

The anchors install into mud, sand, or light gravel through use of powered square drill stem driven from above water line.

I think these could be a nice replacement for mushrooms and if you can't get a dockside berth.

2) The smart play might be for some ambitious owner of water front land to recognize the trend of conversions and buck it by consolidating cruiser boat owners. If you really had your act together, you could make a nice place where everyone could get what they "need" and pay a reasonable dock fee. The waiting list would be very long so you keep 20% in transit docks. The need would be power, water, wifi and maybe phone, but not thinking phone is required anymore.

Now, find that waterfront.
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Old 20-12-2010, 07:42   #283
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And now back to the topic at hand...........

1) Has anyone used the screw down moorings that seems to be the end of needing to hauling a 2 ton concrete mushroom to the water with 10 fathoms of 1" chain?

The anchors install into mud, sand, or light gravel through use of powered square drill stem driven from above water line.

I think these could be a nice replacement for mushrooms and if you can't get a dockside berth.
Here's an article that might be of interest. http://www.roatanmarinepark.com/infr...-buoy-program/
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Old 20-12-2010, 07:49   #284
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Screw down moorings are being introduced in many evironmentally fragile harbours in the UK like Salcombe etc.... anchoring and old style moorings are being discouraged because of the damage caused to the bottom when the boats swing and drag all that chain back and forth...
Its a trend that will continue methinks.... a good trend for a change
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Old 20-12-2010, 08:36   #285
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Screw down moorings are being introduced in many evironmentally fragile harbours in the UK like Salcombe etc.... anchoring and old style moorings are being discouraged because of the damage caused to the bottom when the boats swing and drag all that chain back and forth...
Its a trend that will continue methinks.... a good trend for a change
Wisely noted and I think it's important for cruisers to be very selective in anchoring. The East Coast US has many areas of underwater grasses that are vital to the ecosystems and should be protected. Whenever possible we should find the sandy areas or deeper areas without the bottom vegetation to lay our anchors,- better holding anyway!
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