Is a survey worth it for a $13,000 sailboat?

[cjsfsm]

Originally Posted by RunningCool

Hi all, new here-kinda.
Used to be here about 8 yrs ago when I had a 32ft O'day.
DIVORCE---- lost her.
So, here again with a 37ft O'day.

I live in the Fl Keys.
Coastal Cruising Ya Know mate.

Have a deposit, ready to go.
Contingent on sails and engine sea trial.
Already spent last weekend on it going over every inch.

This weekend my Master Ton 40+ yr Tug/Charter/done everything on the water friend will double check engine and sails.
Hull was striped and redone 1 yr ago.
Diver every month to check it.

But--I have not hauled it out.
I have not dove it. Maybe this weekend.

Full electronics. 5yr old Yanmar 30-AIS-Radar-Garin plotter-Biggest Magnum inverter built-roller furling-davits-new enclosure-new wiring thru out-etc etc.

So --- Is it worth it to pull it out?
I have been out of the sailboat game for 8 years now. Itching man, itching..

For $13,000 I think I dont need to.
Comments I would love. Easy though Virgin here after 8 yrs away.

Here's one way of looking at it. A boat is not a lottery ticket. It is a machine (for lack of a better term). There may be a thousand things a surveyor may find for you many of which can be seen by a person with reasonable intelligence and little knowledge of sailing vessels. Ask yourself of the thousand things that may be "discovered" which would be of the absolute most importance. In other words, what are the deal breakers that would cost you more than putting it right would be worth the money. For example, the engine. If it needs a rebuild or replacement, would the additional cost of $4,000 to $8,000 give you a boat for which you would pay $20,000? A deal breaker for me would be a cored hull. Don't need a survey for that. Other possible deal breakers would be: the mast, standing rigging, keel bolts (if any), and decks.

[AussieCat]

No brainer really. Your going to have to slip her and get a survey before any reputable company will insure you. Better to do it before you purchase I'd think. Also get a licenced rigger to inspect rigging and give written report. Again most companies wont cover rigging over 10 years old.

[Don C L]

Originally Posted by Mark Killam

Insurance and possibly your Marina

I'd say marina more likely than insurance possibly. They want to know your boat won't sink and take the dock with it.

[sailorchic34]

I got a survey done on the Rose 9 years ago ($11K boat). Surveyor missed some things, I found and there were no real (read major to me) issues. Full insurance generally wants a recent survey with in 3 years or newer.. Liability only, generally doesn't care about a survey. Leastwise no one has asked for one yet..

If I was doing it again I would get liability only and call it good. I know more now.

Though I would still have it hauled and hung, while I took a screwdriver and tapped the hull (assuming fiberglass) and checked rudder and through holes on the outside. A good time to paint the bottom too, which is what I did.

[capngeo]

I have my 30 year old CAL28 with Progressive. Agreed value of $25K, $300K Liability/spill... $600/year, no survey required

[Island Time O25]

Originally Posted by capngeo

I have my 30 year old CAL28 with Progressive. Agreed value of $25K, $300K Liability/spill... $600/year, no survey required

Deductibles? Plus $300K liability seems low for our neck of the woods, New England. I've heard people (not connected with insurance) say $500K or more is the bare minimum to keep the vultures away. Other than that $600/yr seems reasonable on a $25K boat. But not on a $13K (or less) none.

[RunningCool]

Originally Posted by markwesti

$ 13,000. for a O'Day 37 ? I would think that the asking price would be much higher . Just sayin'. OK this is interesting I went to Yachtworld , there were 3 for sale 2 were like 30k 1 was 12,900 . The one for 12,900. in the ad it said they would not allow a out of water survey !

Yes, the price is very good.
It was an older couple (70+) that wanted to sail the world 3 years ago.
Bought the boat here in Fl at $17k, then put another 30k into it.
Well they got down the intercostal to home port and parked it in Ft Lauderdale.
Been sitting for 2.5 yrs unattended.
Thats when I found it. Only hit the market 2 months ago.
Owners had a hard time wanting to sell it.
Dreams dashed and all that.
Now he is ill and it was just sucking money and doing nobody no good.

So here I am now, really wanting this thing to pan out.
Saturday is the day.
I will post all what happened and some pics maybe.

[JPA Cate]

If the boat you're interested in is the one mentioned a ways back in the posts, listed at $12,900 where the owner will not let you haul out, run like hell. I cannot think of a reason for that position that would be good for you, and I'm pretty imaginative!

If it is a different boat, if you can find out that the cored deck is not all spongy, or you're interested to have the experience of deck repair, and your friend really does know all about boats, go for it.

Ann

[RunningCool]

No it is not that boat of which was mentioned at YachtWorld.
We got them down from $17,500.

[Sailmonkey]

Originally Posted by zboss

If you are not going to bother with a survey, why waste your money on insurance?


Follow us on tikitreksailing.com

Mmmmmmm..........we've never had our boat surveyed. Still pay liability insurance. I don't follow your point at all.


Sent from my iPhone using Cruisers Sailing Forum

[crankysailor]

Short answer: no

Long answer: if u are buying a $13K 37 ft. boat you are either buying a project boat for chump change in which case you should know what you are getting into or $13K is all you have and your only chance to get into the game in which case you will need to do a lot of maintenance and repairs yourself which means... Yup u guessed it .. You already know what you are doing. Or it will become really expensive.

So in both cases, u should know what you are doing .. To the point where you can assess if a $13K boat is worth your trouble. In any other scenario, you shouldn't be buying this boat (it will either be a money pit or you just can't afford a boat this size mate. sorry)

The mythical "oh my God I just found a $50k ready to sail yacht for sale for $10k" deal is as rare as an honest lawyer.

$0.02

[akprb]

I'm with Crankysailor on this one. Recently I was at YachtHaven in Nassau and noted how many "dream" boats were left there. It was sad and each one told a similar story.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all about the dream. It's the acceptance of some of the reality and adapting to the same. If in a situation where buying a new starter along with let's say a handheld GPS, bilge pump, some hose, fittings and running rigging becomes an issue time to rethink (even food and beer which ain't cheap over there).

These boats were all 70-80 vintage which were probably purchased for around 10-20K. They made it to Nassau and that is where the bills for the above and more became reality.

If you have the skill Cranky alluded to go for it :-) Oh yea, and liability generally no survey.

[Island Time O25]

IMO a project boat becomes an unbearable money pit if a) you have to pay high (or any) storage/dockage fees while working on it, b) you are not handy (or are unwilling to learn to become handy) and need the boat yard or the yard guys to do most of the work, c) can't accept getting used parts/sails, etc. as replacement/fixes and d) don't approach the project in a well managed pace to shorten it's length timewise.

Case in point. For my now 35 year old boat I'd never get a brand new set of sails unless I would go on an extended offshore cruise or ocean crossing. I now the purists here would frown on this approach but I just don't see the upside, considering I am not racing her or trying to win best of show or circumnavigating, in spending say $5,000 (both main and genoa) on something I will never recover and which will be worth half the day I bring them on board. I buy used sails mostly anywhere from $100 to $300 fully aware not to expect more than 1 or 2 seasons with them. So far, over almost 12 seasons, except for one of the sails which lasted exactly 1 and 1/2 season (but that one was acquired for all of $40), all the others in my 11-12 seasons of boat ownership gave me at least 2 or 3 seasons worth of service, and some considerably longer. I figured if I discard a $200 sail every year or two its cost is the equivalent of a new one at $1-2K per 10 seasons worth of use. Still way ahead than buying new ones for $2-3K or more and having to replace them after same 10 years. I will only be behind if a brand new sail lasts me more than 20 years. But even then the opportunity costs of forking out $2-3K now as opposed to increments of $100-300 every few years or so far outweigh any benefits of having a brand new sail for the 1st season.

Now of course, I do not cruise far and if I did the calculations would be very different and at least 2 sails would have to be new or close to new. But I'll cross that bridge when I come to it.

[Island Time O25]

Another case in point. A while ago there was a question from a newbie about the expected cost of replacing the mast and rigging. The answers ranged from high teens up to sky is the limit (for carbon set up). But if you have a project boat needing a new mast and rig which you bought for say $13K how can you justify spending X2 or X3 its acquisition cost for a new rig? Especially considering that even with a new mast and rig you will still have a boat worth under $20K. Instead you go to any decent sized boat yard or boat junk yard and pick out a used rig which fits your boat (very few boats are so non-standard than you can't match its rig with a little tinkering and cutting here and there especially if the rig is fitted with stalocks or norsemans) for about $1-2K, $3 at most, if its a perfect fit. And now you have a $15-20K boat for which you spent $14-16K. That's how you do not lose out completely on a project boat. Or put it in other, more realistic terms - how you lose less than others.

[weavis]

Its $13K

Someone buying a $13K boat wants it to be worth $13K.

If it was me, Id crawl over every inch and satisfy myself, then have it hauled out and satisfy myself again... and put a surveyor there at the same time. If its going to be worth 13K its going to be worth $14K. No hassles from insurers or marinas from then on.

Id feel different if it was $5K... but it isnt..