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Old 28-09-2016, 02:43   #16
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Re: Is a survey worth it for a $13,000 sailboat?

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Originally Posted by Capt Phil View Post
If she has had the same diver go down for hull cleaning regularly for some time and the thru hulls are sound, have been exercised, prop and shaft are in reasonably good shape, you have already gone through the vessel and are satisfied that you can handle any work that needs attention, If I were you, I'd risk it and buy it without a survey. Mind you, I've always been a bit of a gambler... That's why I live in Nevada! Cheers, Phil
I'm with Phil on this one... But mostly because because your buddy is pretty much going do a fairly thorough in water survey... THIS IS IF you do enough researching to be satisfied that THERE ARE NOT common problems with this boat that would best be discovered by a haul...

BUT...


Quote:
Originally Posted by weavis View Post
As stated, your insurer may/will require a survey.

Do it.
Insurance as required by future berthing location... Also, the marina may "require" a haul out survey... Some do...
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Old 28-09-2016, 05:06   #17
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Re: Is a survey worth it for a $13,000 sailboat?

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If you haul it and get a surveyor, he will take his little hammer and tap all around the hull. That's the one thing you can't do by diving on it.

If he finds some soft spots, can you repair them yourself??

If the answer is yes, I'd go without the haul and survey.
This is what I did, and there were repairs to be done and it would fail survey, but knowing that I low balled.... and it was accepted.

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As stated, your insurer may/will require a survey.

Do it.
Eventually the insurance company asked for one, and after my repairs, it was a very clean survey.

In my case it was worth it, I did like you did - I went thru every inch plus used a moisture meter, etc.

Your only concern is what lies beneath....
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Old 28-09-2016, 05:35   #18
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Re: Is a survey worth it for a $13,000 sailboat?

Can you see small blisters under water?
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Old 28-09-2016, 05:49   #19
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Re: Is a survey worth it for a $13,000 sailboat?

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Can you see small blisters under water?
Yes. But as I tell customers wanting a pre-purchase inspection, to learn anything of value about the condition of the hull, it must be cleaned first. I wonder if the OP is prepared to do that.
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Old 28-09-2016, 06:08   #20
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Re: Is a survey worth it for a $13,000 sailboat?

Google can be your friend. The deck is cored so soft spots or moisture could be a small issue , hull is solid GRP so that's good.
They say the iron keel is a maintenance nightmare in saltwater. Is this an encapsulated or iron bolt on?
http://forums.sailboatowners.com/ind...rations.14551/
If the engine, rig, sails are good.and the encapsulated keel, Sounds like a good deal



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Old 28-09-2016, 06:10   #21
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Re: Is a survey worth it for a $13,000 sailboat?

Normally with the price being $13,000 and the costs of 3 surveys (reg. survey, rigging and engine plus oil tests, etc) being well over $1,000, probably closer to $2,000 (if not higher including the haul out) on a 37 footer it does not make sense for these reasons. On top of 8hrs r/t motoring for the haul out (your time, actually a whole work day is worth some $$ too).

1. You'd expect a 37' boat which is sold for $13K to be in TLC condition anyway and if you can's find these issues nor/or fix them yourself (or very cheaply by others) perhaps an older boat such as this one is not for you, as even a well surveyed boat can have a mishap later on which will require big bucks or investment of lots of own time to fix.

2. You could still probably get a limited liability/hazard insurance which would satisfy most places asking for proof of insurance, without a full survey. It would just not have any replacement or other coverage for the boat itself. But then again with such type of insurance costing these days into thousands per year if you self insure your hull it'll pay for itself in about 5 years or even much sooner considering the deductibles, loss of investment opportunities, etc. Not to mention that very few places insure 30+ year old boats to begin with.

3. Knocking off $$ from the agreed upon price is IMO the major reason one would do a survey on a 30+ year old $13K boat. I was in such situation twice and one time the survey came up with about $6K worth of estimates (at boat yard prices) which I offered to split with the seller (knowing that I can get it all fixed for 1/2 of the boatyard cost). He refused and I walked away from the deal. The other time the issues which came up in the survey were addressed by the seller to my satisfaction and I got the boat and was very happy with it.
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Old 28-09-2016, 06:57   #22
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Re: Is a survey worth it for a $13,000 sailboat?

I recently was in this situation with a $10k boat. I opted for not having a survey done. I had a little better situation in that the boat had just recently been put on the hard so I could examine the hull, rudder etc. My goals/requirements for the boat though were to be solid of hull and main components as I wanted a project boat to work on and set up the way I wanted it set up. I knew there was some risk involved but felt even with a survey there was risk (a surveyor missing something etc). To me the risk was within an acceptable range for my plans but I think this is one of those situations where it depends on the person, their aptitude to handle issues that would arise, and their financial situation.
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Old 28-09-2016, 08:07   #23
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Re: Is a survey worth it for a $13,000 sailboat?

Good point, insurance will most likely require a recent survey.
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Old 28-09-2016, 08:15   #24
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Re: Is a survey worth it for a $13,000 sailboat?

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Good point, insurance will most likely require a recent survey.
Insurance and possibly your Marina
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Old 28-09-2016, 08:33   #25
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Re: Is a survey worth it for a $13,000 sailboat?

Whether or not a survey is indicated is not based upon the purchase price, it's based on the possible costs of necessary repairs & insurance requirements. In fact the less you pay for a large boat the more a survey is indicated. You can have an in water survey done but I recommend pulling the boat so that you can see what's going on as well as do a bottom job, check out the rudder, check the prop, check the cutlass bearing, change the zincs & replace any seacocks that need it. Do you really want to buy a 37' boat without seeing it out of the water?
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Old 28-09-2016, 09:10   #26
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Re: Is a survey worth it for a $13,000 sailboat?

Like most of us, you're working on a tight budget and are planning to maintain the boat yourself. With that in mind, I recommend looking at every aspect of the boat from the point of view of access for service and repairs, especially in the engine space. It is going to break down, your are going to have to fix and replace things, and lack of access can make a job ten times more difficult and time consuming. I know it sounds absurd, but on one boat , I had to take out an engine and fuel tank to even see the stuffing box, which was leaking fast. Many of these systems have been assembled while the deck was off. (Wow, look how big this galley is, and look at these monogrammed seat cushions!)

It sound as though you know a lot about boats, and at this price range, your own survey is probably adequate, but not hauling the boat to check the hull, rudder, propeller, strut, cutless bearing, etc. is a false economy. The cost is small compared with what could be lurking down there, and for work on any of those items, you're going to have to pull her anyway.

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Old 28-09-2016, 09:19   #27
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Re: Is a survey worth it for a $13,000 sailboat?

It sounds like you are able to assess the boat pretty well. But yes I would pull it and pressure wash it and see the bottom condition. Early in my sailing life I bought a boat without hauling it. It was perfect, mostly new, actually not completely finished even . But the bottom was the worst case of blisters I have ever seen. It haunted me for a few years of off and on work. Some blisters were 6" long and nearly 1/4" deep!
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Old 28-09-2016, 09:20   #28
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Re: Is a survey worth it for a $13,000 sailboat?

If you are not going to bother with a survey, why waste your money on insurance?


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Old 28-09-2016, 09:22   #29
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Re: Is a survey worth it for a $13,000 sailboat?

I got liability insurance without a survey. Was as easy as calling my agent and telling them a HIN.

My marina only requires liability.

I was thinking about full coverage, they just wanted to inspect it, not a survey.
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Old 28-09-2016, 09:26   #30
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Re: Is a survey worth it for a $13,000 sailboat?

FIRST; Can you get liability insurance without a recent survey? If so, then maybe you can skip the formal survey.
SECOND; Do get an engine oil analysis. Cost under $100. Such a test will tell you more about engine than any other low cost test.
THIRD: Spend the 4 +4 hours motoring and sailing. You want to test both anyway. The longer test will tell you more about the engine; does it overheat at full throtle for 20 minutes, etc. DO the haul out and an informal survey with knowledgeable friends if your insurance does not require a formal survey. If you can borrow a moisture meter even better. Alternatively you can buy a $40 Ryobi moisture meter that works fine on my own boat. Shows me exactly where my leaks are. You can't see some problems from inside the boat; is the propeller corroded, is the cutlass bearing bad, is the rudder leaking water inside the fiberglass, how well is the keel doing (depending on type.) Any signs of major dings.
FOURTH; you can bottom paint at haul out if it needs it.
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