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Old 08-03-2014, 22:14   #1
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Is a Compass your Primary Navigation Instrument or Back Up?

There has been another thread running about this in the UK and I just though I would put a similar question on here and get all the flack again.

I have said that with the type of sailing I do my primary means of navigation is by electronic instruments.

I helm the boat as little as possible preferring to use the auto pilot which is most often set to sail by the wind.

I cannot remember the last time I looked at the ships compass let alone sailed by it.

My view is that it has been demoted from the primary navigational instrument to a back up should all go wrong.

I seem to be pretty much alone in my view as most in the UK said that they always use their compass to sail by, especially when crossing several tides.

I still stand by my assertion that for me and the type of sailing I do a electronics are better and the compass is just a backup very much like my lead line to the depth sounder.

What do you think?
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Old 08-03-2014, 22:46   #2
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Re: Is a compass your primary navigation instrument or back up?

Sailed to Hawaii using the autopilot flux gate compass the whole way. Never took the autopilot out of standby, just used the A/P compass, as have a wind vane to steer. More stable than the magnetic compass and more convenient to read.
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Old 08-03-2014, 23:02   #3
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Re: Is a compass your primary navigation instrument or back up?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nostrodamus View Post
I seem to be pretty much alone in my view as most in the UK said that they always use their compass to sail by, especially when crossing several tides.
I think they are suggesting that steering to COG is not ideal in conditions of changing current, which is true. The objection is to the inefficiency of maintaing a 0 cross track error course rather than a calculated constant compass course. This is especially in important across the English Channel.

However, this has little to with whether you are using the electronic fluxgate compass display on the autopilot, or a conventional magnetic compass.

When steering on the autopilot (which is most of the time for me) using the autopilot compass display makes sense, and like you this is what I am doing most of the time. I always like to know COG and heading, but there are plenty of displays that can be configured to give this information.

Any one compass display should be cross referenced as there is a risk of someone placing something magnetic close by, particuarly these days with magnetic catches proliferating, but in most cases a check against COG is fine.

Hand steering is a bit easier with a conventional compass card, but I don't do this often so like you the autopilot display would be described as my primary display.
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Old 08-03-2014, 23:45   #4
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Re: Is a compass your primary navigation instrument or back up?

Mostly I use my lap top, phone, tablet navigation chart plotters.
Though coming out of Carlingford on a very fogy morning using the plotter I became completely disorentated and turned across the channel inadvertently. The compas heading , swinging North instead of South, was the immediate indication of my error.
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Old 09-03-2014, 00:00   #5
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Re: Is a compass your primary navigation instrument or back up?

In fog. a real compass... is you're only real NAV...aid.

So if not in FOG, why would it be any different?

It's realtime, unlike a digital North/South Pointer.

Fly in a hood and learn to trust your instrument.

The guys with wings, learned it from the guys with sheets.

Lloyd



Quote:
Originally Posted by Nostrodamus View Post
There has been another thread running about this in the UK and I just though I would put a similar question on here and get all the flack again.

I have said that with the type of sailing I do my primary means of navigation is by electronic instruments.

I helm the boat as little as possible preferring to use the auto pilot which is most often set to sail by the wind.

I cannot remember the last time I looked at the ships compass let alone sailed by it.

My view is that it has been demoted from the primary navigational instrument to a back up should all go wrong.

I seem to be pretty much alone in my view as most in the UK said that they always use their compass to sail by, especially when crossing several tides.

I still stand by my assertion that for me and the type of sailing I do a electronics are better and the compass is just a backup very much like my lead line to the depth sounder.

What do you think?
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Old 09-03-2014, 00:15   #6
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Re: Is a compass your primary navigation instrument or back up?

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Originally Posted by FlyingCloud1937 View Post
In fog. a real compass... is you're only real NAV...aid.
Not sure I understand this. What about Radar and GPS to name a couple of useful NAV aids in fog.

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Originally Posted by FlyingCloud1937 View Post

It's realtime, unlike a digital North/South Pointer.
I think you may be referring to COG which requires movement before it detects a direction. It cannot determine the boats heading directly, but autopilots at least have a fluxgate compass that works like a like a normal magnetic compass. Many boats have a gyrostabilised compass, or even a GPS compass. The better models are superior in most ways to a conventional compass (as long as there is electricity)

Of course COG is also important especially in fog.
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Old 09-03-2014, 00:15   #7
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Re: Is a compass your primary navigation instrument or back up?

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Originally Posted by FlyingCloud1937 View Post
In fog. a real compass... is you're only real NAV...aid.

So if not in FOG, why would it be any different?

It's realtime, unlike a digital North/South Pointer.

Fly in a hood and learn to trust your instrument.

The guys with wings, learned it from the guys with sheets.

Lloyd
In fog... chart plotter, AIS and radar... they are better nav aids.
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Old 09-03-2014, 00:19   #8
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Re: Is a compass your primary navigation instrument or back up?

I use a variety of instruments but my basic compass is used more than anything else on longer passages.
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Old 09-03-2014, 00:19   #9
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Re: Is a compass your primary navigation instrument or back up?

Evidently,....

"YOU", have never sailed in FOG...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nostrodamus View Post
In fog... chart plotter, AIS and radar... they are better nav aids.
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Old 09-03-2014, 00:21   #10
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Re: Is a compass your primary navigation instrument or back up?

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Originally Posted by FlyingCloud1937 View Post
Evidently,....

"YOU", have never sailed in FOG...
Hey, I am English.. is there another way of sailing besides in fog?
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Old 09-03-2014, 00:34   #11
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Re: Is a compass your primary navigation instrument or back up?

A proper floating Card never lies!.

A digital/repeater only tells the truth, at every update.

A 2 second lag in update, is a lie.

Lloyd


Quote:
Originally Posted by noelex 77 View Post
Not sure I understand this. What about Radar and GPS to name a couple of useful NAV aids in fog.


I think you may be referring to COG which requires movement before it detects a direction. It cannot determine the boats heading directly, but autopilots at least have a fluxgate compass that works like a like a normal magnetic compass. Many boats have a gyrostabilised compass, or even a GPS compass. The better models are superior in most ways to a conventional compass (as long as there is electricity)

Of course COG is also important especially in fog.
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Old 09-03-2014, 00:46   #12
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Re: Is a compass your primary navigation instrument or back up?

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Originally Posted by Nostrodamus View Post
Hey, I am English.. is there another way of sailing besides in fog?
O I don"t know
Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyingCloud1937
Evidently,....

"YOU", have never sailed in FOG...


Hey, I am English.. is there another way of sailing besides in fog?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nostrodamus View Post
There has been another thread running about this in the UK and I just though I would put a similar question on here and get all the flack again.

I have said that with the type of sailing I do my primary means of navigation is by electronic instruments.

I helm the boat as little as possible preferring to use the auto pilot which is most often set to sail by the wind.

I cannot remember the last time I looked at the ships compass let alone sailed by it.

My view is that it has been demoted from the primary navigational instrument to a back up should all go wrong.

I seem to be pretty much alone in my view as most in the UK said that they always use their compass to sail by, especially when crossing several tides.

I still stand by my assertion that for me and the type of sailing I do a electronics are better and the compass is just a backup very much like my lead line to the depth sounder.

What do you think?
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Old 09-03-2014, 00:46   #13
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Re: Is a compass your primary navigation instrument or back up?

I don't navigate with a compass anymore as I pretty well always set way points and routes and tend to only be interested in XTE if I have to take the boat off autopilot. But one of the things I find I really need the compass for is to avoid disorientation if I have to move the boat at night. I usually take a bearing to clear out of an anchorage when I drop the anchor and have had the situation where I then used the bearing to clear out to sea when the weather went bad in the anchorage.
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Old 09-03-2014, 00:51   #14
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Re: Is a compass your primary navigation instrument or back up?

Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyingCloud1937 View Post
A proper floating Card never lies!.
All instruments have some error and lag including the traditional analogue magnetic compass. Perhaps one day they will have zero mass compass cards and zero friction bearings, but not in my lifetime.

I am not sure this has such a great influence on our relatively slow turning cruising boats, but a GPS compass, or even a good gyrostabilised compass is superior.

My own boat has a simple gyrostabilised fluxgate compass which is probably on about par with the conventional magnetic compass. The biggest difference is the human interface. For autopilot steering the digital display is superior, but hand steering the analogue display is better (at least for me). More modern instrument systems can present the electronic compass in an analogue format when desired.
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Old 09-03-2014, 00:53   #15
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Re: Is a compass your primary navigation instrument or back up?

Long distance a Kindle is more use than a compass

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