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Old 17-05-2017, 00:57   #46
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Re: Inverter and AIS worth the money?

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Originally Posted by Paul L View Post
Chuck
What do you mean AIS is a planning tool?

All AIS transmitters have a name associated. The name info is broadcast at a much slower frequency than the position reports (like in every 7 minutes). If your receiver does not successfully receive the name info then your AIS will simply show position info with the MMSI. Your AIS misses lots of position reports, but they are so frequent you don't notice it missing.

I feel that AIS is simply one of the best info/safety electronics for the investment. An AIS can be had for under $500us , much less than radar. No one is saying it's a must, just a good value.

First no not all boats with ais have a name associated with them -- we have seen way way to many with no name - mmsi yes but name no --

second as a planning tool we look way out and see what is out there and then work with what we see and the information and then try to make a plan for small moves - a few degrees - to make the pass we want instead of making major drastic moves at the last minute - planning is both a long term and short term issue -
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Old 17-05-2017, 01:25   #47
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Re: Inverter and AIS worth the money?

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First no not all boats with ais have a name associated with them -- we have seen way way to many with no name - mmsi yes but name no --

second as a planning tool we look way out and see what is out there and then work with what we see and the information and then try to make a plan for small moves - a few degrees - to make the pass we want instead of making major drastic moves at the last minute - planning is both a long term and short term issue -
I tried to explain to you how the 'no name' occurs above. It is a failure to receive the data packet on your end, not a failure to transmit it by the other vessel. All AIS vessel transmitters transmit their name information.

I wasn't sure how you differentiated between a safety tool and a planning tool. Seems pretty much the same. I suspect the way you use AIS is the same as most others do for collision avoidance planning.
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Old 17-05-2017, 02:00   #48
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Re: Inverter and AIS worth the money?

With AIS your land-locked friends can also look up your whereabouts on marinetraffic.com
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Old 02-08-2017, 02:37   #49
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Re: Inverter and AIS worth the money?

Okay, I'm resurrecting this thread, but with a wee difference. AIS can be had as stand alone devices. The background on this is that I had always felt completely comfortable with receiving only.

Until today, and it was a series of VHF interactions that brought about my conversion to transponder.

How it happened was this: green container ship coming in narrowish channel, out of which were coming 4 military vessels, one catamaran, motoring, and one monohull, sailing. The container ship hailed the monohull "with the sail up", took hi off to ch. 12, explained the situation and suggested what the skipper should do. The skipper agreed, having checked his chart. We waited. The cat didn't contact the container ship on 12.

After 2 or 3 minutes, the container ship called the catamaran, "catamaran northbound near the Spitfire Channel", and he, too came back. And, they all got it sorted. But, sitting on Insatiable II, southbound, I thought, " how much easier it would have been for the pilot of the container ship, if he had known what call sign (or name) to call.
Why on earth shouldn't we little guys, us wind assisted flipping idiots make it easier for the guys who are making their living?????????????

So count me in, with a changed position, for transponders with AIS for ocean going yachts..... If you're in the boonies or the woop-woop, you may not need/want it.

Ann

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Old 02-08-2017, 04:51   #50
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Re: Inverter and AIS worth the money?

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Originally Posted by JPA Cate View Post
Okay, I'm resurrecting this thread, but with a wee difference. AIS can be had as stand alone devices. The background on this is that I had always felt completely comfortable with receiving only.

Until today, and it was a series of VHF interactions that brought about my conversion to transponder.

How it happened was this: green container ship coming in narrowish channel, out of which were coming 4 military vessels, one catamaran, motoring, and one monohull, sailing. The container ship hailed the monohull "with the sail up", took hi off to ch. 12, explained the situation and suggested what the skipper should do. The skipper agreed, having checked his chart. We waited. The cat didn't contact the container ship on 12.

After 2 or 3 minutes, the container ship called the catamaran, "catamaran northbound near the Spitfire Channel", and he, too came back. And, they all got it sorted. But, sitting on Insatiable II, southbound, I thought, " how much easier it would have been for the pilot of the container ship, if he had known what call sign (or name) to call.
Why on earth shouldn't we little guys, us wind assisted flipping idiots make it easier for the guys who are making their living?????????????

So count me in, with a changed position, for transponders with AIS for ocean going yachts..... If you're in the boonies or the woop-woop, you may not need/want it.

Ann

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Old 02-08-2017, 07:05   #51
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Re: Inverter and AIS worth the money?

Just got back to the boat after nice sundowners on shore. The conversation of Ais come up. I was the second least experienced cruiser there. Four have ais transceivers and one dosent, all four of us are passionate supporters. The two biggest supporters are all so the most experienced cruisers, one is on his second circumnavigation and has done the north west passage and the other has done cape horn and Antarctica, neither can understand why for the money you wouldn't have one and why you wouldn't make it as easy as possible for ships to see you.
The guy that dosent have any ais also has little money. It often seems to me that its more an economic thing followed by justification. Im yet to meet a sailor that has used a ais extensively that dosent think its a great bit of kit.
Im an advocate because I would like all boats to have one, not for them but for me.
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Old 02-08-2017, 08:39   #52
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Re: Inverter and AIS worth the money?

I have been making an AIS decoder for Android for a time now and can tell you the way the software / hardware were designed is clearly a sign idiots abound.

SOTDMA vs. CSTDMA story reads like a good novel noire and looking at sentence encapsulation and data structure within makes you feel like (W*F???).

I am super happy the system is around (we have had a receiver for 5 years, now looking at one of the new class B transceivers) but it all could be actually twice as good if not for the morons creating and implementing it.

Cheers,
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Old 02-08-2017, 08:47   #53
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Re: Inverter and AIS worth the money?

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Originally Posted by barnakiel View Post
I have been making an AIS decoder for Android for a time now and can tell you the way the software / hardware were designed is clearly a sign idiots abound.

SOTDMA vs. CSTDMA story reads like a good novel noire and looking at sentence encapsulation and data structure within makes you feel like (W*F???).

I am super happy the system is around (we have had a receiver for 5 years, now looking at one of the new class B transceivers) but it all could be actually twice as good if not for the morons creating and implementing it.

Cheers,
b.
Can you explain how it good be twice as good? Dosent it now do 100% what its meant to?
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Old 02-08-2017, 08:54   #54
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Re: Inverter and AIS worth the money?

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I was looking to install a AIS into my Raymarine and add an inverter to my Leopard Cat when I got some serious sticker shock! I am planning on spending the summer sailing the Bahamas with my husband and two boys. In your opinion, is the cost (5K-7K) worth it or will my family be just as safe as without it?
First of all, AIS and an inverter are two wildly different and unrelated things. Second, your quoted cost is way out of line.

AIS is nice to have and it enhances safety, but people have been boating since the beginning of time without it. Keep your eyes open when underway and it's not necessary, just nice to have.

An inverter is nice to power AC powered devices when away from shore power. There are small, inexpensive inverters to operate computers and TVs and there are more expensive, higher powered inverters to operate things like a microwave oven (this is what we have). A high powered inverter will need a substantial battery bank to power a microwave oven, coffee maker, hair drier, etc.

You can buy all this stuff (including extra batteries) for well under $5K.
Probably under $2K.
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Old 02-08-2017, 10:49   #55
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Re: Inverter and AIS worth the money?

Contributing my 2 cents worth....

I stayed with AIS receiver-only while we were learning. We also had thoughts about piracy and being tracked / targeted more easily if we are broadcasting our location.
In today's world and the areas we are likely to travel, a transponder makes more sense. It puts us in the loop on all levels and makes us much more visible in crowded conditions. We will install a send-receive AIS and use it.
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Old 02-08-2017, 11:26   #56
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Re: Inverter and AIS worth the money?

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Originally Posted by KP44 View Post
Contributing my 2 cents worth....

I stayed with AIS receiver-only while we were learning. We also had thoughts about piracy and being tracked / targeted more easily if we are broadcasting our location.
In today's world and the areas we are likely to travel, a transponder makes more sense. It puts us in the loop on all levels and makes us much more visible in crowded conditions. We will install a send-receive AIS and use it.
I think the threats of piracy are overrated, especially in the USA. You are more likely to be attacked in the towns you visit than on the water.

The AIS transceivers I have been looking at all have the ability to disable transmitting but I can't think of an occasion where I would use that feature.

Transmitting your position is a safety feature. Other boats with AIS will know your location and avoid colliding with you.
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Old 02-08-2017, 16:45   #57
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Re: Inverter and AIS worth the money?

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Can you explain how it good be twice as good? Dosent it now do 100% what its meant to?
A couple of different ways.

E.g. the units could affirm acquisition. This would remove the worry over being filtered out by a lame officer of a cargo or fishing ship. As well as the common mistake of some operators that believe that they are seen just because they can see.

E.g. the units could pre-calculate the passing situation. (few do) They are better at it than us humans.

E.g. the units could deploy a virtual MOB marker. One deployed from a mothership (mast height 10m, radio power 25W) could assist finding the MOB (mast height 2ft, radio power 5W).

etc

Let alone that some 80% if not more of the older units use the lame protocol rather than the good one. Only because a guy out there thinks his copyrights are more important than human life.

Just look at the hardware / software specs and you will see a dozen ways to better use the existing technology. It is just as if the people who build the units and the lawmakers co-operated in making a great device just good.

Cheers,
b.
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Old 02-08-2017, 17:50   #58
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Re: Inverter and AIS worth the money?

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A couple of different ways.

E.g. the units could affirm acquisition. This would remove the worry over being filtered out by a lame officer of a cargo or fishing ship. As well as the common mistake of some operators that believe that they are seen just because they can see.
the protocol is a deliberately lossy protocol. If there are ten ships in the vicinity you want them each to send an Acknowledgement back?
Of course the Ack itself is over a lossy protocol, so you wouldn't know if it was received. Then you might want to add a Nack when the vessel is lost????? This is just not how these types of protocols work or should work. It is a transmit and forget approach.

E.g. the units could pre-calculate the passing situation. (few do) They are better at it than us humans.
Vesper
E.g. the units could deploy a virtual MOB marker. One deployed from a mothership (mast height 10m, radio power 25W) could assist finding the MOB (mast height 2ft, radio power 5W).
interesting thought. Not as useful as the AisSART actually on the Mob, but possibly useful.
etc

Let alone that some 80% if not more of the older units use the lame protocol rather than the good one. Only because a guy out there thinks his copyrights are more important than human life.
I think it's a Patent, not copyright
Just look at the hardware / software specs and you will see a dozen ways to better use the existing technology. It is just as if the people who build the units and the lawmakers co-operated in making a great device just good.

Cheers,
b.
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Old 03-08-2017, 03:10   #59
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Re: Inverter and AIS worth the money?

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Originally Posted by KP44 View Post
Contributing my 2 cents worth....

I stayed with AIS receiver-only while we were learning. We also had thoughts about piracy and being tracked / targeted more easily if we are broadcasting our location.
In today's world and the areas we are likely to travel, a transponder makes more sense. It puts us in the loop on all levels and makes us much more visible in crowded conditions. We will install a send-receive AIS and use it.
Having sailed a few areas that some fear to tread we like the send function as countries CG and ports can see us and watch us and hopefully will respond if there is anything that looks out of the normal. When we sailed into a small port in Albania that was not an "official port" a local police came down to ask if we were ok as Tirana called him to check on us - and coming down the Italian Coast we knew the CG was watching us as when we arrived in a port the mgr said that we made good time as they did not expect us for a couple of more hours - and crossing the east end of the Black Sea we were warned to stay at least 25nm off the coast between Hopi Georgia and Sochi Russia - we told them we would and told the Russians and Georgians that we would be at least 20nm off the coast and we knew for a fact that both watched us - if we had made a hard right to the coast or stopped we have some belief that with the ais and epirp we would have had assistance -

we like being seen
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Old 03-08-2017, 06:30   #60
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Re: Inverter and AIS worth the money?

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Originally Posted by KP44 View Post
Contributing my 2 cents worth....

I stayed with AIS receiver-only while we were learning. We also had thoughts about piracy and being tracked / targeted more easily if we are broadcasting our location.
In today's world and the areas we are likely to travel, a transponder makes more sense. It puts us in the loop on all levels and makes us much more visible in crowded conditions. We will install a send-receive AIS and use it.
Most trancievers have a silent option, you can recieve and not transmit if you choose. The pirate paranoia is just that, mostly paranoia.
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