Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 25-12-2014, 05:41   #16
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 4,867
Re: International Orange? Safety Yellow?

I would lean towards an ANSI spec vest (I'm sure europe has a similar spec if you are there). They are usually floressent yellow/green and they have retroreflective strips (absolutely key in a night time situation). They have pretty much become standard in the road construction industry.

But while they hold color better than in the past, I have an old vest that is not nearly as bright as when it was new.

As others have said, multiple contrasting colors is an even better option as different lighting and background may make different colors show up better.

It is my beleive that the dark orange is a left over. People resist when you tell them the orange vests they have always carried no longer meet specifications.
__________________

__________________
valhalla360 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 25-12-2014, 06:54   #17
Senior Cruiser
 
Kenomac's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Somewhere in the Adriatic Sea
Boat: Oyster 53 Cutter
Posts: 8,507
Re: International Orange? Safety Yellow?

We stick with international orange for safety gear. I purchased two horseshoe life rings last season in white to match the boat better, but on second thought, returned them and stuck with the bright orange ones that we already had.

Didn't seem to make much sense to match the life rings to the boat and ocean, when we want them to stand out and contrast as much as possible in an emergency.
__________________

__________________
Kenomac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-12-2014, 08:13   #18
Registered User
 
Delancey's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Miami, FL
Boat: sunk by irma
Posts: 3,462
Re: International Orange? Safety Yellow?

I've spent pretty much my whole career working as a designer of some sort, having attended art school where I studied intently how to paint pretty pictures of naked ladies and where I learned how colors really work. Basically, all of my life experience tells me that orange is the all around best color for use at sea and I had to ask the question because I just don't understand why the hoodies on our foulies are fluorescent yellow when they very obviously should be orange.

Color theory hasn't really changed much in the past hundred years or so and it is pretty widely understood when dealing with pigment colors that orange and blue are complimentary colors, which is to say they are OPPOSITE colors and have the greatest color contrast. For reference I have attached a color wheel that shows primary, secondary, and tertiary colors. You might notice that yellow is the compliment of purple and that red is the compliment of green.

What yellow maybe has going for it is that it has the lightest "value" or measure of light and dark. This is maybe good if you are a dog and can't see colors, or possibly low light situations when viewed against dark background.

But here's the thing, we are not dogs. We see in color. And more importantly purple, plain and simple, is not a color you see that much in nature in general and rarely if ever at sea. However blues and blue-greens are pretty much all you see, that and grey. What's the compliment of blue-greens? Of course it's reddish orange. Go figure. What happens when the sea is grey? Well in that case the lighter value of yellow actually diminishes it's visibility and the darker value of orange makes it more recognizable.

Of course, I could be wrong about all of this. To borrow a phrase, I would look forward to being wrong because that would mean I was about to learn something. I don't think I am. I think the fluorescent yellow hoodies is as much a shoreside mentality fashion thing as anything else. Unfortunately I don't have access to photoshop handy to make some examples of all of this. Maybe later.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	image.jpg
Views:	112
Size:	104.7 KB
ID:	94278  
__________________
Delancey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-12-2014, 08:16   #19
Registered User
 
Delancey's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Miami, FL
Boat: sunk by irma
Posts: 3,462
Re: International Orange? Safety Yellow?

I can't say these guys are fashion forward-types but they sure look like they know what they are doing.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	image.jpg
Views:	114
Size:	443.7 KB
ID:	94279  
__________________
Delancey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-12-2014, 09:50   #20
Senior Cruiser
 
DeepFrz's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Winnipeg
Boat: None at this time
Posts: 7,930
Re: International Orange? Safety Yellow?

Yellow is the most visible color to the human eye.
Quote:
On the other hand, since yellow is the most visible color of all the colors, it is the first color that the human eye notices. Use it to get attention,
Color & Vision Matters
__________________
The Blue Dot Campaign. This Changes Everything.
DeepFrz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-12-2014, 09:57   #21
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: On the hook in Florida
Boat: Tayana V42 - Passages
Posts: 504
Re: International Orange? Safety Yellow?

Of all the colors used for lobster trap floats in Florida Bay, yellow is by far the most visible.
__________________
Trying to live on 20th century money in the 21st century.
jcapo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-12-2014, 10:05   #22
Senior Cruiser
 
Kenomac's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Somewhere in the Adriatic Sea
Boat: Oyster 53 Cutter
Posts: 8,507
Re: International Orange? Safety Yellow?

Delancey,

I totally agree with your color analysis and opted for opposite contrasting colors, remembering the color wheel from grade school.

Ken
__________________
Kenomac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-12-2014, 11:26   #23
Registered User
 
Delancey's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Miami, FL
Boat: sunk by irma
Posts: 3,462
Re: International Orange? Safety Yellow?

I agree the eye is most sensitive to yellow-green. Not disputing that. Makes perfect sense on the streets to have a highway worker wearing a yellow-green vest.

We are able to distinguish stationary objects because of contrast both in terms of light and dark as well as contrasts in terms of hue. My point is that because the environment at sea is largely blue to blue-green, yellow or yellow-green is maybe not the color to use and that orange or reddish-orange should provide better contrast.

Now on the one hand we have institutions like NASA, the U.S. Navy, and the USCG who demonstrate a preference for orange.

On the other hand you have fashion designers who might not be sailors creating a product like foul weather gear to sell to consumers who might not be the most educated or informed but are certain to have their eyes caught by fluorescent yellow in a store, which is where the money changes hands. Maybe, maybe not. That's my gut.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	image.jpg
Views:	93
Size:	124.6 KB
ID:	94297  
__________________
Delancey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-12-2014, 11:54   #24
Registered User
 
Delancey's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Miami, FL
Boat: sunk by irma
Posts: 3,462
Re: International Orange? Safety Yellow?

Here, this is more like it.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	image.jpg
Views:	106
Size:	103.4 KB
ID:	94298  
__________________
Delancey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-12-2014, 12:01   #25
Registered User
 
TeddyDiver's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Arctic Ocean
Boat: Under construction 35' ketch
Posts: 1,826
Images: 2
Re: International Orange? Safety Yellow?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Delancey View Post
But here's the thing, we are not dogs. We see in color. And more importantly purple, plain and simple, is not a color you see that much in nature in general and rarely if ever at sea. However blues and blue-greens are pretty much all you see, that and grey. What's the compliment of blue-greens? Of course it's reddish orange. Go figure. What happens when the sea is grey? Well in that case the lighter value of yellow actually diminishes it's visibility and the darker value of orange makes it more recognizable.

Of course, I could be wrong about all of this.
Concur with you, but as I mentioned earlier, when the light diminishes things change. Our eyes don't see colours in moonlight, just shades of grey and when it gets even darker just a climps of grey over the black water. For SAR purposes orange works becouse they search in VFR conditions, and if not, are using thermal imaging and then there's no relevance to visible colours. For others, who ever happens to be around the clock like other boats, black colour (used with orange) increases the visibility considerably. Ask any fisherman looking after his market bouy in the dark..
__________________
TeddyDiver is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 25-12-2014, 12:02   #26
Registered User
 
Delancey's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Miami, FL
Boat: sunk by irma
Posts: 3,462
Re: International Orange? Safety Yellow?

Compare. Squint while you look at them.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	image.jpg
Views:	103
Size:	38.7 KB
ID:	94299  
__________________
Delancey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-12-2014, 12:08   #27
Registered User
 
Delancey's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Miami, FL
Boat: sunk by irma
Posts: 3,462
Re: International Orange? Safety Yellow?

I can see color at night. I can tell you if a buoy is red or green. They only way you are ever going to spot a MOB at night is with a torch. Color at night or in low levels doesn't matter. We are talking all around which means day and night.
__________________
Delancey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-12-2014, 12:20   #28
֍֎֍֎֍֎֍֎֍֎

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 13,022
Re: International Orange? Safety Yellow?

The traditional arguments that I've heard involve color contrast and false color at sea. That is, a true yellow or orange or red will be hidden by the colors of sunset on anything white (including whitecaps) at sea. So late in the day when you really want to get someone before night falls, red and orange and yellow are camouflage colors.


Chartreuse, a color that most Americans can't spell or pronounce, is what is often called "OSHA yellow" or "neon green" or "lime". In theory it is more visible against the sunset colors at sea, so it is used for hoods, for something like the last 10-15 years. Spray hoods generally didn't exist before then, I think it was an ISF rules revision that suggested adding them.


Chartreuse on land--which is the OSHA criteria--came about because it is a totally unnatural color in most job environments, meaning construction sites, manufacturing plants, and roadways. If you look at catalog pictures of that safety gear online, and look at the actual gear, you'll see it reproduces as green or yellow, depending on the "printing" of the photo. Not surprising, since the human eye literally deduces yellow (from a green-blue imbalance) we can't actually see that color.


However, it is the wrong color in many environments as well. The chartreuse bleaches out easily in sunlight and then becomes something similar to forsythia blossoms and a number of other shrubs, so school crossing guards and other people who like to duck into shade against "green" leafy backgrounds, can actually become invisible when wearing it.


Which is why you'll see many roads crews, utility crews, wearing vests that are both orange AND chartreuse now. Diagonals, stripes or crossed. The combination of the two can't be mistaken for anything natural. And you'll see the rear of many box ambulances and fire trucks with diagonal stripes in bright yellow and red, similarly unmistakable for anything else.


A little hard to get much of either color on whatever might be floating at sea, like your head and shoulders. But both colors work in some situations, and since there's little shrubbery at sea, chartreuse should work well for a MOB. Orange for bigger objects that will stick out, regardless of sunset coloring on whitecaps.


Just hope that life vests don't follow the fashion lead of foulie makers, and switch to black, white, and navy.(G)
__________________
hellosailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-12-2014, 12:34   #29
Registered User
 
Delancey's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Miami, FL
Boat: sunk by irma
Posts: 3,462
Re: International Orange? Safety Yellow?

Sounds good to me. Learned something new. Thanks.

The name for the color comes from the booze. I haven't had any in a while, it's good. Made by monks, secret herbs, a little sweet. Maybe tonight is the night. Merry Christmas everyone!
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	image.jpg
Views:	103
Size:	356.7 KB
ID:	94301  
__________________
Delancey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-12-2014, 13:05   #30
Registered User
 
MBWhite's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Illinois
Boat: Hurley Alacrity
Posts: 370
Re: International Orange? Safety Yellow?

Somewhat obscure, but an interesting bit of history:
__________________

__________________
MBWhite is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
safety

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Orange / Perdido / Gulf Shores Transient dakno Marinas 2 25-03-2010 09:45
Orange Coast College Tim - Blind Squirrel Training, Licensing & Certification 3 08-11-2007 09:52
Why would a MOB pole be orange?? Alan Wheeler General Sailing Forum 65 22-01-2006 18:42
Orange II GordMay Multihull Sailboats 1 29-01-2005 10:05



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 07:24.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.