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Old 26-01-2015, 10:15   #16
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Re: Interesting conversation with insurance underwriter

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Originally Posted by WindwardPrinces View Post
You've got a lot of nerve, given the requirements California has levied on everyone else regarding every issue their legislature cares about....

Any state legislature that follows the example of the scatter-brained and dim witted California legislature should be recalled.

But, the reality is that the California legislature and Referendum process creates enough unnecessary and ill conceived rules, regulations, and taxes for the rest of the states combined.
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Old 26-01-2015, 13:55   #17
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Re: Interesting conversation with insurance underwriter

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Originally Posted by TacomaSailor View Post
I am afraid you are missing the point of my wonderment about the need for a San Diego Bay hurricane plan:............
No, you are missing the point. Have a plan and provide it to the insurance company. It's counter productive to argue with him. You want insurance, come up with a plan even if you think you'll never need it and give it to him. How difficult is that?
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Old 26-01-2015, 14:00   #18
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Re: Interesting conversation with insurance underwriter

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No, you are missing the point. Have a plan and provide it to the insurance company. It's counter productive to argue with him. You want insurance, come up with a plan even if you think you'll never need it and give it to him. How difficult is that?
A little PIOUS or Condescending?

As I said in an earlier message - we did give them a plan and we did get the quote.

My message was WHY does the insurance company require an Hurricane Plan where a hurricane can not exist and has never happened? Why should a West Coast boat have to meet the same requirements of an East Coast boat?
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Old 26-01-2015, 14:02   #19
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Re: Interesting conversation with insurance underwriter

Rashly assuming that hurricane prep in San Diego would properly consist of sending condolences to the Keys....


One could conclude the insurance company are idiots, take advantage of them by giving them what they ask for. Or, one could conclude they are so inept they have no grasp of the risks they are and aren't covering. Which makes one wonder, just how inept they might be at other little issues. Like, properly surveying losses and paying for them.


The way some insurers are too clever to have a boat hauled after a grounding, which can result in rudder damage ($$) being missed entirely. Seen that first hand. The "adjuster" was too seasick onboard to think of anything besides getting off!
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Old 26-01-2015, 14:08   #20
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Re: Interesting conversation with insurance underwriter

Tacoma, kmason, et al...
I feel your pain, and understand your frustrations....
Sometimes you just do what the extortionists (opps, I mean Insurance Companies) demand, and smile...BUT...

But, in all honesty, I think you all should actually look for new / different insurance companies!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by TacomaSailor View Post
Today, I spend a while on the phone with an insurance underwriter, after I spent even more time with an insurance salesperson, who asked me a lot of detailed questions. Big Insurance Company!

The underwriter kept asking me about our "Hurricane Plan" and who will care for your boat in case of a hurricane?
Quote:
Originally Posted by kmason View Post
I've filled out "Hurricane Plans" every few months only to be asked again and again for another plan. I've sent registered mail and it still seems like they never receive it or misplace it every time.
I live in Florida, my boat is docked in SE Florida and I sail the Atlantic, Med, Bahamas, and Caribbean.....and we had THREE direct hits of Cat 3 hurricanes and 3 glancing blows of Cat 3 hurricanes in 2004 and 2005....all of which I was on-board for...
I had full "named windstorm coverage"...

And, after the storms of 2004/2005 (just cosmetic damage), we still had the same insurance and same "hurricane plan"....

[But, after a lightning strike in 2006....I got non-renewed...so I went looking for a new ins co.]

So, in 2006, I chose IMIS as my agent and Markel as my insurance company....
I filled out my Hurricane Plan (which I went WAY over the top with, adding 3 additional pages of info, as well as multiple digital photos in the e-mail)....it was accepted without question, and although I waived my "hurricane coverage" in 2007 when I sailed across the Atlantic, since summer of 2008 I have had full "named windstorm" coverage for Florida, Bahamas, and Caribbean, throughout the whole year....
And, I've only ever filled out ONE "hurricane plan"....


Not sure what extortionists (darn, I mean "insurance company" and "underwriters") you're using....
But, if you guys are having this much trouble just getting them to 'accept" or "agree" with your hurricane plans, it makes alarm bells go off for me regarding how they're going to treat you if you ever need to make a claim, non-hurricane claim, etc...
So, that's why I wrote up front that I think you need a different ins. co....

Have a talk with Rachael at IMIS....
You might be surprised at how easy and painless the marine insurance process is, if you're dealing with actual professionals that know/understand "cruising boat" and "yacht" insurance...
(full "agreed-value" coverage is available, with no depreciation allowances, etc...but, if you're in SE Florida and desire full "named windstorm" coverage, like me....it ain't cheap...just fyi....my hurricane coverage for just July 1st thru Nov 1st, costs me as much as the entire rest of the policy, incl hurricane coverage, for the whole year!!!)

IMIS Home Page ~ International Marine Insurance Services

IMIS Jackline Insurance Program



BTW, my understanding is NOT that a "west coast" boat needs to meet "east coast" standards, but just that the ins. co. needs all the paper work to be the same for all their insured...
Quote:
Originally Posted by TacomaSailor View Post
My message was WHY does the insurance company require an Hurricane Plan where a hurricane can not exist and has never happened? Why should a West Coast boat have to meet the same requirements of an East Coast boat?
Please remember that you are in effect dealing with legalized criminals when dealing with ins. co....if you just resign yourself to paying what they demand, you might become less frustrated...

Again, I REALLY think you guys need to work with a different agent / company / underwriter....
And again, I recommend calling Rachael at IMIS...




I hope this helps..

Fair winds..

John
s/v Annie Laurie
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Old 26-01-2015, 14:10   #21
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Re: Interesting conversation with insurance underwriter

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Originally Posted by TacomaSailor View Post
A little PIOUS or Condescending?
Nope, just telling it like it is.
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Old 26-01-2015, 14:18   #22
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Re: Interesting conversation with insurance underwriter

My hurricane plan for Beth:
Keep her in a place there has never been any hurricanes.
Ok Done.
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Old 27-01-2015, 09:48   #23
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Re: Interesting conversation with insurance underwriter

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My hurricane plan for Beth:
Keep her in a place there has never been any hurricanes.
Ok Done.
I got insurance this fall with BoatUS and was surprised to be asked what my hurricane plan was. My first instinct was simply "avoid them" but they wanted more. So I had to find a longer way of saying the same thing. I mentioned that my boat would be kept in Maine for the next few years and the record shows that hurricanes tend to die down to less than hurricane force by then so that alone should keep my boat safe. I also mentioned that my mooring was designed for a much bigger boat and I use dual pennants with chafe gear and my harbor has good natural protection and I would remove sails.

What I purposely didn't say was that I would have my boat hauled before the hurricane arrived even though I would attempt to have that done. The reason for not mentioning it is that I cannot control which boat local boatyards choose to haul and it's not something I can arrange for now just in case a hurricane happens next year. If I was unable to persuade a local yard to haul me before the hurricane hit and damaged happened so a claim was necessary, I don't want to be confronted with my own hurricane plan reassuring them that I would have my boat hauled and have that used as a justification for denying my claim. When submitting a hurricane plan, I think it's important to "keep it real" so you can't be held accountable for promises you are unable to live up to.
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Old 27-01-2015, 10:11   #24
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Re: Interesting conversation with insurance underwriter

One question. Would not a "hurricane plan" be applicable for any serious storm, whether or not is an actual hurricane? I believe Santa Ana winds can reach hurricane force in Socal. Not sure what they call them but I've been in SF when the winds were hurricane force. Was at Vista Point once when the winds were so strong you literally could not stand up or walk against it.

So, I'm not defending the extortionists insurance companies but having a plan for hurricanes (read "storm conditions" for CA) is not a bad idea.
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Old 27-01-2015, 10:22   #25
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Re: Interesting conversation with insurance underwriter

Quote:
Originally Posted by jtsailjt View Post
I got insurance this fall with BoatUS and was surprised to be asked what my hurricane plan was. My first instinct was simply "avoid them" but they wanted more. So I had to find a longer way of saying the same thing. I mentioned that my boat would be kept in Maine for the next few years and the record shows that hurricanes tend to die down to less than hurricane force by then so that alone should keep my boat safe. I also mentioned that my mooring was designed for a much bigger boat and I use dual pennants with chafe gear and my harbor has good natural protection and I would remove sails.

What I purposely didn't say was that I would have my boat hauled before the hurricane arrived even though I would attempt to have that done. The reason for not mentioning it is that I cannot control which boat local boatyards choose to haul and it's not something I can arrange for now just in case a hurricane happens next year. If I was unable to persuade a local yard to haul me before the hurricane hit and damaged happened so a claim was necessary, I don't want to be confronted with my own hurricane plan reassuring them that I would have my boat hauled and have that used as a justification for denying my claim. When submitting a hurricane plan, I think it's important to "keep it real" so you can't be held accountable for promises you are unable to live up to.

You may want to do some research on hurricane haul outs. From what I read, a proper hurricane haul out includes securing the boat to the ground with anchoring devices.


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Old 27-01-2015, 10:24   #26
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Re: Interesting conversation with insurance underwriter

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Originally Posted by skipmac View Post
One question. Would not a "hurricane plan" be applicable for any serious storm
It is actually not a "hurricane plan" that the insurance companies ask for - it is a "named storm plan", which does cover most serious storms.

At least that has been our experience with the wording on several policies.

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Old 27-01-2015, 10:27   #27
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Re: Interesting conversation with insurance underwriter

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Originally Posted by jtsailjt View Post
When submitting a hurricane plan, I think it's important to "keep it real" so you can't be held accountable for promises you are unable to live up to.
Use phrases like "a reasonable attempt will be made to haul the boat at a local yard provided there is enough advance warning of the storm and the yards are able to haul the boat".

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Old 27-01-2015, 10:44   #28
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Re: Interesting conversation with insurance underwriter

Maybe this is why
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Old 27-01-2015, 10:45   #29
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Re: Interesting conversation with insurance underwriter

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Originally Posted by skipmac View Post
One question. Would not a "hurricane plan" be applicable for any serious storm, whether or not is an actual hurricane? I believe Santa Ana winds can reach hurricane force in Socal. Not sure what they call them but I've been in SF when the winds were hurricane force. Was at Vista Point once when the winds were so strong you literally could not stand up or walk against it.

So, I'm not defending the extortionists insurance companies but having a plan for hurricanes (read "storm conditions" for CA) is not a bad idea.
Details:
San Francisco is not Southern California. It is 465 miles NW of San Diego (think Boston to Norfolk Virginia) Calling a San Franciscan a SoCal resident would be a grave insult and implying that the strange people in San Francisco are part of the ultra-cool SoCal culture would truly offend a SoCal resident.

Vista Pointe winds are due to heating in the valleys east of SF Bay which then sucks the cool Pacific Ocean air in thru the Golden Gate - pretty much the opposite of a Santa Ana.

San Francisco does not experience Santa Ana winds which only occur south of Santa Barbara, which is about 265 miles SE of San Francisco

Santa Ana winds can easily reach hurricane force (they did so last weekend) but very rarely reach the coast line and when they do they are rarely above 30 - 40 knots. Last weekend the Santa Ana winds were gusting over 70 knots from the NE or East in all the usual mountain passes and foothills. At the same time we, here on the San Diego coast, were getting winds at 5 knots or less from the West.

Otay Mountain (15 miles to our SE) and Descanso (30 miles to our East) were seeing East to SE winds of over 30 knots while it was dead calm here.

I agree a plan is important.
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Old 27-01-2015, 11:00   #30
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Re: Interesting conversation with insurance underwriter

Dauntless,

Not a single one of those East Pacific storms came within 500 miles of San Diego or Southern California.

The East Pacific storms form to the west of El Salvador, Nicarauga, and SW Mexico about 1700 Nautical Miles to the SE of San Diego (Belfast to Tripoli) and wander NW for days and days.

The summer (Hurricane Season) water off the coast of San Diego is seldom above 72 degrees and that cold water extends 400 - 700 miles SE from San Diego. A hurricane aimed at San Diego would have to traverse at least 400 miles of convection killing cold water.

Moving at 200 miles a day - the storm would spend two days over cold water and would not be a convective storm by the time it got far enough north to affect SoCal.

Hurricanes that move up the narrow ( 75 to 100 miles wide) Sea of Cortez over that very warm water then have to cross over a 175 miles of desert mountains that are over 3,500 feet high to reach San Diego. A few have tried but none arrived in San Diego with more than 35 knots of wind and a lot of heavy rain.
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