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Old 29-01-2007, 21:01   #31
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Brent, Then you had a hull that has simply not been built well, or the design is totaly flawed. The piling one for instance, a pile could not fit through the steel rod to be able to go through the hull and deck. Something had to be wrong there.
I have seen one 50ft Tahitian that was slammed onto a solid rock reef. She survived and was repaired. The only damage was to the aft section of the keel and the rudder gudgeon. I have heard of hulls that could not support their own weight on the hard. This problem is simple. They were built incorrectly. As I said earlier, those boats do not exist now. They didn't survive the 30yrs later it is now.
FC reaches an impact strength of 11000PSI in about three weeks of cure and will go on to as much as 19000PSI over 3 months of cure and will continue to increase.
Even greater strength is then achieved via the design. FC is all about tranfering loads. It is very good at this. Better than solid steel even. The FC has a certain amount of give and is able to take great amounts of shock and disapate it into structural areas. Steel will crumple or tear.
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Old 29-01-2007, 21:02   #32
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I'd be interested in hearing what any of the well informed types who have been part of this discussion have to say about Engineered Cementitious Composites, or ECC. It's currently being developed for things like flexible bridge couplings and earthquake protection in skyscrapers, but who cares about any of that stuff if you could possibly build a sailboat out of it?

From what I understand of this stuff it's as flexible as most alloys under heavy loads, basically waterproof and will not allow embedded metals to corrode, and is substantially stronger than normal cement of the same thickness. Of course it's a more complex compound than normal cement and extra building costs would be incurred in that, but wouldn't there be a few advantages to using something like this that could possibly make it worth it? Would not the risks of major damage due to impacts against something like a reef or any of the other things that have reportedly sent ferro boats to the bottom be greatly reduced? A boat's stability could certainly benefit from a thinner, lighter deck and superstructure right?

Do you guys see this stuff ever being a cost effective alternative to existing materials? Is there any reason outside of cost that this stuff could not be used?

I've been mulling this over for a while, just thought I'd throw it out there...
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Old 29-01-2007, 21:41   #33
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I don't know the product. I do know that a pros attempted using new cement products, but they had little advantage over the tried and true process and because of the cost, the pro guy;s never made it in the industry. I think the other point to this is that FC is used because as a hull because it is cheap and easy for the DIY'er to do.
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Old 30-01-2007, 14:30   #34
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the discussion is excellent for ones like me who'v have a fear of products they know little about but dwell on the stories heard and you tend to remember the bad ones, so thanks,
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Old 30-01-2007, 18:15   #35
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Lots of ferro boats out there ! Good ones just look like any other boat
how many steel boats burn while being welded- need to strip intiorer to refit
who likes epoxy fumes
wood has streigth in one direction only
Ive researched the web for info on ferro seems to be lots of half truths and second hand stories
very hard to build a one off fg vessel
steel square bildge looks ugly
ferro is do able for amature with profeesinal help to plaster
maybe 1500hrs for armature then 100hrs to plaster
easy to repair
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Old 30-01-2007, 19:03   #36
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Yes, I agree. Great discussion, especially about the pros of the material. It is a material without a lot of data on it. This was a great thread for me. I have learned a lot. Thanks, guys.
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Old 02-02-2007, 01:12   #37
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When I was a youngster I had a Hartly constuction manual and used to drool over the Tahitian. Many years later I come across a hull for sale which was partially fitted out. Instead of the cement plaster some sort of resin powder mixture had been used. Hull, decks and most major partitions used this. The weight was claimed to be about 2 tons under a concrete version. I thought about this for a long time but backed off as I was worried that the extra ballast needed to make it float to the correct waterline would give it a very fast motion. The material being an unknown in this application was also another concern.
Has anyone come across any ferros plastered with anything like this. Were they successful.
Mike
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Old 02-02-2007, 14:45   #38
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A modern approach...

Ferro is a good construction medium if cost and durability (not to mention speed and safety) are paramount but any saving is a small percentage of the final cost.
The main requirement for building a large cruising yacht is space and time.
If building another boat I would be very tempted to apply the technique that I used to build the Hartly RORC 32 in ferro but to adapt it to fibreglass.
I would build upside down using a wood armature (spaced wood stringers over ply bulkheads) with shaped foam blanks to fill in the spaces between in an adaptation of the method recomended by Roberts. That is, instead of building a mould that is then discarded I would make it a permant part of the boat.
I'd use epoxy resin to seal the bulkheads and any other timberwork that was not to be embeded in fibreglass.
Then, instead of wire I'd use unidirectional glass fibre, keeping track of fairing as each layer was applied.
Finish off with an epoxy/fibreglass/ply deck and cabin and it shoud be possible to get a relativly quick hull/deck together.
Vinylester resin is very little more expensive than polyester so I would use it.
The entire project time could be greatly shortened by putting all the interior furniture mounting battens on the bulkheads prior to errection. Indeed much of the interior furniture could be constructed before putting on the stringers.
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Old 04-02-2007, 00:59   #39
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What a surprise! A discussion on ferro boats that is more positive than primative!
Before buying my boat, I did a lot of research. I also checked the pedigree of the boat I eventually decided to buy. I am therefore not at all worried about it's integrity as a seaworthy mussel.

I also have absolutely no concern about losing out should I come to sell the boat. She was suitably cheap for me to consider giving her away in a game of bingo; should that unlikely event occur. As it is, given the bargain I got with this boat, plus the fact that I am free as a bird and able to live life on the super-cheap, what with being a woman who abhors shopping and/or most material comforts hankered for by the average Sheila, I believe that I will be able to cruise for many years to come if I use my bonce.

What a lot of naysayers about ferro miss is the fact that quite a few buyers of ferro are relatively young and don't have the massive 150,000k budget that retirees might have after selling their property. It's now or never for some of us who can't wait to live this kind of life, and thank goodness ferro boats are out there to save the day!

I'll be moving to my boat in just over a months time and will no doubt be logging the journey - from boatyard to launch - in my prolific blog.

Mata ne and thanks for getting this discussion on ferro going.
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Old 04-02-2007, 01:46   #40
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able to live life on the super-cheap, what with being a woman who abhors shopping and/or most material comforts hankered for by the average Sheila,
Holy Crap, and you ain't married?? ;-)

Yep if it wasn't for the price we paid for our Ferro, we wouldn't have a boat either. I had a really top offer for her back in the winter. A first I thought, cool we could upgrade. But after a thorough look around, I could find nothing that could replace her for less than double what I was offered. So we decided to stay with what we have and I am very happy.
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Old 04-02-2007, 02:10   #41
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Holy Crap, and you ain't married?? ;-)

Yep if it wasn't for the price we paid for our Ferro, we wouldn't have a boat either. I had a really top offer for her back in the winter. A first I thought, cool we could upgrade. But after a thorough look around, I could find nothing that could replace her for less than double what I was offered. So we decided to stay with what we have and I am very happy.
Yep, when I was left washed up on the shore by the wanchor Italian folks suggested that I sell my boat and get a smaller one. What they failed to grasp was 1] there were/are very few blue water boats out there to be had for the price that I paid for my ferro, even the smaller boats and 2] I intend to find another man to paint my toenails in Bora Bora.
And this is why I kept my boat.
Yay.
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Old 12-09-2011, 06:08   #42
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Re: Intelligent Discussion on Ferro

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Originally Posted by ssullivan View Post
Hey everyone,

Having read the recent greet on ferrocement, I was wondering if we could all have an intelligent, rational talk about these vessels. What are some of the pros? What are some of the cons?

I have to admit I know next to nothing about them, other than a few instances where people have lost ferro boats on reefs, etc... That doesn't mean anything one way or the other.

Why would someone prefer to own a ferro? Why would someone prefer to own another hull material over a ferrocement?
G'day ssullivan,

I believe a well built boat in FC would be the way to go. I found and posted some good information on FC built boats, the information was provided by Captain Alan Hugenot, a marine surveyor based in San Francisco, CA and I posted the information at: Steel or Wood Construction - Why ?

Had I seen this old FC thread earlier, I would have posted that information here, where I feel it would have been of more use. The Captain also provides other good information on "good boat keeping" at his site: Marine surveys, Captain Alan Hugenot San Francisco, CA Home

Bill
Australia...I like well built FC boats
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Old 12-09-2011, 06:53   #43
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Re: Intelligent Discussion on Ferro

Forgot to post the pictures of four beaut FC yachts, either one of which I would like to own but...I'm just not ready to make the move up from my plastic 22'er. Still, with a bit of luck, one, or more, of these FC yachts will still be available when I am ready

Can anyone honestly say, these four FC yachts are not as nice looking as plastic yachts? And as they have been on the water for 28 to 37 years, they are "for-sure" sea worthy yachts.

A FC 40' Hartley South Seas




A FC 44' Herreshoff.


A FC 45' Hereshoff.



A FC 46' Samson.



Yes mate, I do like well built FC yachts
By the way, for those FC sailors on here, if you could have one of the FC yachts above, which one would you chose and why?

Bill
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Old 12-09-2011, 08:52   #44
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Re: Intelligent Discussion on Ferro

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Hey everyone,

Having read the recent greet on ferrocement, I was wondering if we could all have an intelligent, rational talk about these vessels. (...)
Yes, provided you do not own one.

I saw an old German (nazi) barge on a European beach somewhere. It was still there, after some 50 years. So, it is a time proven technology. I had a close look at the thing and had walls 8 inches thick. I bet it was very strong, I bet it was very heavy.

Now in sailboat design, I believe there is a good reason to build light hulls and ballast them (or build light hulls and not ballast them - multihulls).

Can we build a ferro hull that will have strength comparable to other common materials (wood, metal, GRP) and at the same time have comparable weight?

Next, (much as I understand I am stretching reality) I tend to see the ferro hull alike the GRP one. Now, steel mesh seems to be a much stronger matrix than glass, but concrete seems a much less perfect (weaker, less adhesive, less water-proof) filler than resin. What about the properties of the resultant material?

Why are there no big craft build in ferro - tankers, tall ships, submarines? Why are there no mass production ferro-cement sailing boats?

My two cents. Good technology, except perhaps not for building sailing boats.

b.
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Old 12-09-2011, 08:59   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barnakiel

Yes, provided you do not own one.

I saw an old German (nazi) barge on a European beach somewhere. It was still there, after some 50 years. So, it is a time proven technology. I had a close look at the thing and had walls 8 inches thick. I bet it was very strong, I bet it was very heavy.

Now in sailboat design, I believe there is a good reason to build light hulls and ballast them (or build light hulls and not ballast them - multihulls).

Can we build a ferro hull that will have strength comparable to other common materials (wood, metal, GRP) and at the same time have comparable weight?

Next, (much as I understand I am stretching reality) I tend to see the ferro hull alike the GRP one. Now, steel mesh seems to be a much stronger matrix than glass, but concrete seems a much less perfect (weaker, less adhesive, less water-proof) filler than resin. What about the properties of the resultant material?

Why are there no big craft build in ferro - tankers, tall ships, submarines? Why are there no mass production ferro-cement sailing boats?

My two cents. Good technology, except perhaps not for building sailing boats.

b.
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