Intelligent Discussion on Ferro

[Mark1977]

Originally Posted by jm21

Hello All,

We looked at a FC boat launched 1989, home built. Builder had built 2 smaller FC boats previously. We are concerned first with the quality as a home built hull, and if he had enough people on it at the time, but also that the deck and cabin were FC as well, which seems like it would make the boat very top heavy and potentially dangerous to sail. They claim it was a Samson design but the cabin trunk seems to have been designed by the builder. The broker has the displacement listed at 85,000 pounds which seems really really high, even for a large boat (49-55 on deck, had several different numbers listed).

Should we just run away? We're not considering the boat TOO seriously but it does have some things we really like.

1989 Ferro Cement Sloop Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

We have seen the boat and seems very solid. Lots of cosmetic problems but seems like it would be really low upkeep and it's set up to use generic land-based stuff for most things which makes replacement easier/cheaper.

Hopefully we can limit this just to talk about the FC aspects of the boat and design/construction.

Looks like alot of boat for the money. My decks are fc but my cabin is not, having the cabin fc too may make it a little top heavy??? The 85000 pounds does seem high. My 37 is 14 ton. What model samson is it ? C-Witch mabey?

[jm21]

Originally Posted by Mark1977

Looks like alot of boat for the money. My decks are fc but my cabin is not, having the cabin fc too may make it a little top heavy??? The 85000 pounds does seem high. My 37 is 14 ton. What model samson is it ? C-Witch mabey?

I couldn't figure it out. The broker listed 55' and 60' as possible lengths. There was an article the owner had left on the boat about it being built that had listed 49' I believe. He and either his brother or best friend or something like that had built 2 boats of the same length over the course of about 4 years in alaska. The original owner/builder still is the owner but I haven't talked with him yet.

I was thinking maybe a c-lord?

It's a big boat, but the cabin trunk and rig don't seem to mesh with any plans I've seen. It's built as basically a motor-sailer with a cutter rig. There is a forward pilothouse with windows fore, steering to port, and a ton of storage to starboard. At the aft the boat is totally flat with a samson-like hatch to a huge storage lazarette and a helm to port, all covered by a plywood-topped shelter with steel supports.

[Wand]

The ad says the design is by Sampson. Maybe it was, because I've not seen anything like it by John Samson But that doesn't mean much because way down here most ferros are Hartleys - and it might have been a commissioned design anyway.

Be aware though that a lot of home builders chose to alter published designs - invariably to make them bigger - and still attributed them to the designer. If they'd consulted the designer and the extensions were approved, all well and good. But ususally the home builder/s thought they knew best...

The deck and cabins being ferro shouldn't be an issue - it's how most are built and it's structurally sounder to complete the shell that way. Doghouses are timber of course and it's the same with this one. But the weight seems high to me.

My 42 footer tips the scales at 14 tonnes and, just guessing, if a 50+ footer is double the displacement then the 85,000lbs (nearly 40 tonnes) does seem way too high. For a more direct comparison, there's a 50+ footer ferro in our club that is 25 tonnes.

So the weight (if I've converted correctly) strongly suggests to me that something is amiss.

Also, the pics don't show much detail on the hull but the little bit available suggests the finish might be rough. Well finished ferro looks and shines like f/glass.

So while it may be fine for a liveaboard, I'd tread warily if you intend taking it to sea.

[jm21]

It's possible that the broker got the weight wrong or the builder/owner did...

Hull and topsides were painted with cheap paint that was peeling so hard to tell how much was the paint's fault and how much was the hull's fault.

Interestingly the broker emphasized the weight to show how solidly built the boat was.

[Wattsailing]

I have an FC boat designed by Jay benford and built in Vancouver by Jack Slop ship yard. She is a topsil schooner 42 foot on deck 60 foot long with davit and bow spit, she is 20 tone with a volvo penter 50 horse motor. Most ppl think she is made steel or GRP or timber her lines are wonderful and sails 6 knots in 15 knot wind she also has a square sail which is wonderful down wind. We love her she has been around the world x2 and is on her 3rd trip round she is dry and warm water tight and very well built.

[BillAU]

Originally Posted by davidtward

Just trying to contact BillAU.

Did you ever get to look at that Sampson 46 in Guatemala?

I am looking for a cruising / live aboard and have the same problem as you... too far to just nip over and see it.

Do you know which yard built it?

thanks

G'day David,

Due to other commitments at home, I never did get to see that Samson in Guatemala but she is still for sale. Here's the link: 46' Samson
The ad' says $28,500 but I know you can get her for $18,000 cash! No Offers at that price! I would grab her at that price but I just can't get away.

Bill
Australia

[BillAU]

Originally Posted by atoll

my old ferro 48 ft hartley tahitian is for sale again in gocek turkey if any body is interested in a cheap boat,had lots of work done on it by the current owner
photos here Boudicca Sailing Boat - Home

eBay - The UK's Online Marketplace

G'day Atoll,

Your Hartley looks good to me and I would not object to owning a well built Hartley Tahitian but I'm in Australia and your Hartley's in Turkey ...If you still have it
Still mate, she looks to be a nice clean and bright Hartley so, what are you asking for it Bearing in mind if anyone in Oz buys her, they will have to sail her back to Oz then go through the import hoops and extra exspences involved.

Cheers,

Bill
Australia

[bigdog5]

I have had a Hartley Queenslander for going on 20years and the main problem has been the anti foul staying on.In desperation a few years ago I had her blasted back to bare and then had a rep from a marine paint manufacture come and advise the best way to go.About $2000 later and much work back in she went.Next haulout lo and behold ,blisters for Africa and owner adopting the fetal position on slip!Since then I've tried every idea,short of spraying maidens water(which is in very short supply in my area) on it and so far the only way seems to involve taking it back to bare and epoxying.I have noticed most ferro boats here(NZ) suffer from similar problems.My take on it involves ferro/salt water and some sort of chemical or maybe electrical reaction.I intend doing a bit every haulout and will get the gnarlyest epoxy known to man for the job!Other than that As long as you don't mind getting stuck in,and you can handle a 4 inch angle grinder ,for the money you get a lot of boat and in my experience a stable safe dreadnort to bring you back to safe harbor with only the usual dramas every one else has,for half the cost(although the wife would dispute the last statement )Dave. PS if anyone has any thoughts on the antifouling problem I would be pleased to hear them.

[BillAU]

Originally Posted by bigdog5

I have had a Hartley Queenslander for going on 20years and the main problem has been the anti foul staying on.In desperation a few years ago I had her blasted back to bare and then had a rep from a marine paint manufacture come and advise the best way to go.About $2000 later and much work back in she went.Next haulout lo and behold ,blisters for Africa and owner adopting the fetal position on slip!Since then I've tried every idea,short of spraying maidens water(which is in very short supply in my area) on it and so far the only way seems to involve taking it back to bare and epoxying.I have noticed most ferro boats here(NZ) suffer from similar problems.My take on it involves ferro/salt water and some sort of chemical or maybe electrical reaction.I intend doing a bit every haulout and will get the gnarlyest epoxy known to man for the job!Other than that As long as you don't mind getting stuck in,and you can handle a 4 inch angle grinder ,for the money you get a lot of boat and in my experience a stable safe dreadnort to bring you back to safe harbor with only the usual dramas every one else has,for half the cost(although the wife would dispute the last statement )Dave. PS if anyone has any thoughts on the antifouling problem I would be pleased to hear them.

G'day BD,

I have been reading-up on paint/treatment information for FC and found the following sites:

8. PREPARING AND PAINTING A FERROCEMENT HULL

Unicoatings 2k Protective Coating - Unicoatings

This Canadian site provides some interesting information on painting FC and other type hulls, the owner/author has 35 years experience with FC and other boats so you may get a few ideas on the site: Coastal Epoxy Restoration Inc | Applications: Drying Techniques

Cheers

Bill
Australia

[bigdog5]

Hi Bill,Plenty to ponder there! I have always noticed the blister problem is at it's worst were the ferro is at it's thickest around the bottom keel area and the ribs.You could see the internal structure in blisters from the outside at it's worst.As I posted I've had some success with epoxy.The article set me thinking that maybe,sanding off an area inside, and putting a dehumidifier in with plastic over it taped to the hull(with enough gap to let a minamal amount of air in to avoid blowing it up) would be an interesting way to see what moisture came out.Short of stripping the interior of the boat out the only way to vacuum it out wold be to get it done like glass boats for osmosis although I've never heard of it being done, on ferro.I don't have any structural issues caused by this problem but at the price of anti fouling I'm pretty keen for it to stay on as long as possible!Any how thanks for your help,Dave.

[Wattsailing]

This is all very new to me have only had my FC boat for a year. When I renewed the anti-foul did,t notice any blisters it just looked like any other boat. My boat was built in Canada in 1984 ,we live on board full time and the inside is always dry there is no mould and no smell. Are we just lucky or will these things happy later?
Peter

[encore]

I needle scaled my Samson back to a very rough cement. Followed this with a neat epoxy coating and while this was still tacky a couple layers of West epoxy filled with 207 filler. This was sanded smooth and followed with three coats of Interlux Interprotect. I'm now in the process of sanding and applying Coppercoat. A lot of work and time and I hope it holds up. I did notice two small blisters in the bilge area (about 1/4 inch) and these seemed to be caused by moisture from the inside. In these areas the rods were close to the surface. I repaired them and did more waterproofing on the inside. I won't be concerned it they reappear.

Sam Coles in England did his Ramprasand by this method and got quite a few years without attention. He made his own bottom coating with West epoxy and pure copper powder which is the same as Coppercoat. His buildup from the cement was the same as mine.

[bigdog5]

Hi Peter,Sounds like you have already arrived were I'm heading!I wouldn't think it would start blistering if it's showing no sign.Like you my boat has always been sweet and dry inside and I've had more problems with the wood cabin than the hull over the years!Dave.

[bigdog5]

Hi Encore,The way your doing it is the way I should have gone but for bad advice from paint company.I'm now doing it a bit every hauloutWhen I get it stable I intend doing the coppercoat way as the older I get the less I want to do anti fouling.I have seen articles in aussie mags were they use some sort of radio wave set up which stops barnys sticking on(maybe talkback radio) but wether this would work onferro remains to be seen.Dave.

[Wattsailing]

I guess I have need very lucky with Argos she was built to a very high standard my trade is carpentry and I know high skill tradesman work when i see it,both to the hull and inside