Inboard engines and a changing world

[DeepFrz]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

So your saying that Tesla can divert power from privately owned devices? I assume these roofs and power walls are privately owned?

Please don't misquote me and I suggest you work on your comprehension.

[cj88]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

So your saying that Tesla can divert power from privately owned devices? I assume these roofs and power walls are privately owned?

Maybe they were used as a Virtual Power Plant like in this instance? One would assume that there is an agreement to do so already in place.

Virtual Power Plant

[Lepke]

I think diesel may get cheaper before it gets expensive. New ships, bunkering vessels, and tugs are being built to use LNG. Some existing ships are being modified to use LNG. It burns cleaner and engines require less maintenance and down time. The fuel is available at more and more ports all the time. Ships now mostly use MDO that is less refined than #2 diesel. As ships move away from MDO the refiners will have to re-purpose MDO and price it to move.

Ship fuel use is measured in tons per day. Maybe around 50-100 tons/day per ship. 100 ships moving from MDO to LNG could effect the market.

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by DeepFrz

Who??

you mentioned about the gas stations in Cali not having standbys .
I bet they are trying to get something in place now .

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by DeepFrz

Please don't misquote me and I suggest you work on your comprehension.

I feel that with what you wrote it was a valid hypothesis and theory worth asking about.
That all is aside from the fact he actually quoted your entire post ?
Here is what you wrote
Originally Posted by DeepFrz View Post
It is interesting to note that during the blackouts in California Tesla diverted all solar cell and Tesla Wall production to charging stations most likely to be affected by the blackouts.

How was there a mis comprehension?

[john61ct]

Production and delivery of the hardware units.

Not energy production from units already sold to other users

[DeepFrz]

Originally Posted by john61ct

Production and delivery of the hardware units.

Not energy production from units already sold to other users

^^ Exactly. Tesla is producing solar panels and Power Walls.

[roland stockham]

Nobody has mentioned efficiency savings. In the last 20 years we have gone from 100w incandescent light bulbs to 10w LED's that produce the same light. From baseboard heaters needing 5Kw per room to heat pumps that will heat an entire house for the same consumption. From cars that do 30mpg to it being practical to run all urban traffic on solar/hydroelectric (more than 50% or taxis in Canada are now electric plus most buses and light rail mostly run from hydro)
Yes it is true that currently we cannot run long distance transport without fossil fuels mainly limited by battery capacity but who would have envisioned a 1000a/hr lithium cell on a boat a few years ago. Imagination what a difference doubling battery capacity at half the cost while doubling electric engine efficiency would make to the equation. Now imagine what producing all that new tech will do to the world economy. The move away from fossil fuels will change the world and at a speed that will surprise us. If you double how fast things can happen I can tell you that when I was at school were where taught how to use mechanical adding machines because there where no computers, phones, (landline ones not cell) where an expensive luxury, most houses in the UK did not have hot water on demand or central heating and most people crossing the Atlantic went by boat. I just retired but what is the world going to look like by the time my grand children retire? Look at the stat's and places like China and India are leading the change, the west needs to wake up and catch up fast but is getting there. The USA is now the only G7 country that is not up to 30% on renewables and quite a few are in the 75-90% range. Given all this then yes I can quite see that in 20yrs cruising boats will be solar powered with a battery backup.

[StuM]

Originally Posted by roland stockham

The USA is now the only G7 country that is not up to 30% on renewables and quite a few are in the 75-90% range.

More hype. Where did you get your figures from.


I can't find any G7 country coming anywhere close to 75-90% on energy production , even if you take hydrogeneration into account. In fact only 2 out of the other 6 makes 30% including hydro and none if you exclude hydro.



The best figures I can come up with after looking at a number of sources for each country is:


Canada - Hydro 60%, non-hydro renewables 3% : Total 60.3%
France Hydro - 12.2%, non-hydro renewables 7.4%: Total 19.6%
Germany Hydro 3.7%, non-hydro renewables 23.3% : Total 27%
Italy Hydro 16.3%, non-hydro renewables 19.1%: Total 35.4%
Japan Hydro 7.8%, non-hydro renewables 9.6% : Total 17.4%
UK Hydro 3%, non-hydro renewables 25% : Total 28%
US = Hydro 8%, non-hydro renewables = 9% : 17%


Note:

Non-hydro renewables includes a certain percentage of burning biomass.


The two highest non-hydro renewable producers:
Germany: about 12% offshore wind, 6 % solar, 5% biomass. They have recently become a net energy importer after 10 years as a net exporter.



UK: about 10% wind, 10% biomass and 5% solar. They also have to import about 8% of their total energy needs

[Chotu]

I am not getting into the philosophical debate going on. All I know is it's coming. Fast.

https://www.instagram.com/p/B5Aj_Hhn...d=dzcf5am0w175

Ford Mustang. Electric. If that doesn't say something, nothing does. Classic American muscle car redeveloped as an electric too.

So what about boats?

I have outboatds so I'm ready for the coming change. They should be getting old just about the time I have to look at different power sources.

But what about systems? A good idea to go all electric now so as to not have to change them all out once LPG isn't readily available?

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by Chotu

I am not getting into the philosophical debate going on. All I know is it's coming. Fast. ...

I don't treat this as a philosophical debate Chotu. I've taken the question to be a practical one based on the capacity of the technology now, and into the foreseeable future. It's already perfectly possible to use an electric auxiliary engine with a sailboat. What isn't very easily possible is to do so independent of shore power or some form of ICE generation.

The trends are all looking positive in that batteries and solar collection keeps getting better. But the point I made, looking at my own situation as someone who cruises slightly off the beaten path in a modest cruising-level boat, is that these technologies need to improve by around two magnitudes. So far we've seen continual linear improvement, which is great. But at this rate it's going to be a long time before the technology achieves the levels needed.

For boats that don't go far, or that don't venture away from first-world infrastructure (much like most Mustang's ), electric propulsion is already viable. If you're willing to be more of a pure sailor, then it's already viable. But if you're looking to replicate how most distance cruisers use their engines now, I say electric looks less viable now, and into the foreseeable future.

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by StuM

... Where did you get your figures from ...

Which sources did you consult?

The United States of America has one of the world’s largest installed solar PV capacities, and an installed wind energy capacity second only to China. But it is also one of the world’s biggest energy consumers, which tends to cancel out much of its renewable capacity. Nevertheless, if more attention was paid to renewables over fossil fuels, it has been estimated* that the U.S. could reduce its emissions by almost 80% (relative to 1990 levels) in only 15 years, without impacting on consumer electricity costs.

* “Future cost-competitive electricity systems and their impact on US CO2 emissions” ~ by Alexander E. MacDonald et al
➥ https://www.nature.com/articles/nclimate2921

A 2009 study* by Stanford University researchers predicted that the world could be powered entirely by renewable energy, using today's (2009) technology, in just 20 to 40 years

How to get all energy from wind, water and solar power by 2030
➥ https://web.stanford.edu/group/efmh/...aco5p.indd.pdf

[mpkoontz]

I "love" to hear of all the problems electric drives will solve for us (regarding diesels). But I have to admit, I'm a little leary...

I thought diesels were [partly] used in boats, in the old days, because they could run without electrics (electronics). Remember when you had kerosene lamps and candles? Is everybody out there comfortable putting in all this "dependency" on wires and connections (that don't like salty air)? Dependency, not luxury. What happens when you take on enough water to cover your floor? Is your locomotion, cooking, heating all lost?

I'm just asking, because I love the idea of getting away from diesel maintenance, counting hrs, and fuel (tank) problems. But I "wonder" if my fears are just mine (or not)?

[KTP]

If a monohull were designed from the ground up to be electric inboard it could be done fairly well.

The battery bank could be encapsulated into the bolt on keel which solves problems with cooling and fire hazard, plus the weight is the most useful there. You would still need some lead in the keel but you could probably get something like a 200kWh car type battery pack in the space traditionally meant for keel mass and diesel fuel tank.

With 200kWh, you could motor for 10 hours at 7 knots or 20 hours at 6 knots, several days at 5 knots, easily enough range for the way most people use their marina kept sailboats.

10 year lifespan on the battery but near zero maintenance during the 10 years.

[DeepFrz]

Canada generation of electricity in 2017 was;
Hydro - 60%
Non Hydro renewable - 7%
Nuclear - 15%
Fossil - 19%

So if you include Nuclear energy production the total was closer to 82% renewable in 2017.

I would argue that renewable energy production has increased dramatically since 2017 with a large increase in solar and wind installations.

The last time I drove across western Canada (2 yrs. ago) I was struck by the increase in wind turbines that had been installed and the growth of wind farms is increasing every year.