Inboard engines and a changing world

[Borschelrh]

The problem is storage of energy. Batteries are expensive, heavy, and relatively inefficient. I recalled reading an interesting idea from Tata motors in India where they use electricity to pump compressed air into a tank which then cycles through a reciprocating engine using only air pressure. Perhaps this is a better way to harness the energy and could power a boat engine for long periods.
https://www.drivespark.com/four-whee...20-020628.html

[geoffa]

Folks,
Let technology and economics sort out man's contribution to climate change.
Renewables will extend the time for peak oil. For long range or short range depending on usage diesel from the ground or from renewables is the only viable solution.
This is a great outcome as no matter what we will have plenty of chemical energy to propel us forever and we can have a warm feeling, excuse the pun, that we are not adding to climate change.
To compare a Tesla, brilliant technology, to a marine cruisers need is to compare artichokes with Apple's!!

[daysgoneby]

Originally Posted by geoffa

Folks,
Let technology and economics sort out man's contribution to climate change.
Renewables will extend the time for peak oil. For long range or short range depending on usage diesel from the ground or from renewables is the only viable solution.
This is a great outcome as no matter what we will have plenty of chemical energy to propel us forever and we can have a warm feeling, excuse the pun, that we are not adding to climate change.
To compare a Tesla, brilliant technology, to a marine cruisers need is to compare artichokes with Apple's!!

Totally agree, and that's with sailboats. Off the top of my head, I would think batteries would need to be 1/10 the size and hold 10 times the power of the best available batteries today to be a match for a 55hp diesel and 180 gallons of fuel.

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by skenn_ie

Charging off-peak is good, but are you suggesting that EV batteries be used via grit-tied inverters, to supplement grid power during peak times ? EV batteries are considerably more expensive than grid storage, and even with the substantial charge/discharge cycle count, they would be a very expensive way of storing power for anything other than road use.

Maybe but it’s been postulated for years, another consideration is fuel cells of course.
If we go to more and more Solar and Wind, then we have to have a robust answer to fill in the gaps, now I believe that could be natural gas powered turbines myself because whatever you have needs to be able to be brought on line quickly and for example it makes less sense to idle a Nuke plant.
But sure pump water backwards into resolves, maybe melt millions of tons of salt, etc. likely to be all the above, even massive flywheels spinning in a vacuum ‘floating” on magnets has been postulated.

The problem is solvable, what it will take is to get the public wanting it, and I don’t see that now, not when Ford has said for the last couple of years that they will soon stop manufacturing sedans and only build SUV’s and Pickup trucks.
But what needs to change is people wanting to drive 6,000 lb vehicles around carrying nothing but themselves, and live in McMansions with large windows, etc, etc.

Back in the 70’s as a kid I figured the house I would have built would be underground, get a few ft down in South Fa and North Fl and the temp is 68F year round, and you don’t have to go deep either, and you would still need some cooling but not much.
Then windows are easy, just simple periscopes. Have an above ground building for a garage.

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by Lake-Effect

Being able to draw from connected EVs during peak load is a bonus benefit, not a primary design goal. It's just something extra one gets from having all those rolling batteries connected to the grid.

The way to make that work is allow people to buy power at one rate when it’s excess, but let them sell it back at a profit when there isn’t an excess.
Then the government doesn’t have to mandate or build anything, people will stand in line to buy something that makes them money.

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

... 1. Ford has said for the last couple of years that they will soon stop manufacturing sedans and only build SUV’s and Pickup trucks.
2. But what needs to change is people wanting to drive 6,000 lb vehicles around carrying nothing but themselves, and live in McMansions with large windows, etc, etc...

1. Indeed, but Ford’s new strategy also includes committing to new propulsion choices, such as adding hybrid-electric powertrains to profitable vehicles such as the F-150, Mustang, Explorer, Escape, and Bronco.
The company will begin the rollout of its battery electric vehicles with a performance electric model in 2020. The company plans to bring 16 battery-electric vehicles to market by 2022.

2. Indeed.

[malbert73]

Once batteries reach where capacity is enough for serious range, we can all ditch our rigs and turn our decks into a solar farm. Why spend money on sails and rig if you have silent electric propulsion?
Exception being ocean crossing I am sure

[Mr O]

Yes, I am seeing big changes on the west coast of the US away from fossil fuels. There are many EV’s on the road and more to come. I’m on my 2nd EV and very happy to drive it instead of my ICE car. Solar on the garage powers it unless longer trips are taken. As for my cruising boat, the range is not there yet. But the 9.9hp gas powered dinghy motor has been in storage ever since I bought a electric outboard. Works great for us due to no maintenance, super quiet, no fumes, no gas onboard and much easier to move it from the rail to dinghy transom. Very light! There’s also a lot of battery powered tools on the market now that replace noisy polluting yard equipment like mowers, trimmers, saws, etc. With PV arrays on the roof, all of these tools can be solar powered. Still haven’t found a way to fire up my bbq with solar though! [emoji13]

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

The way to make that work is allow people to buy power at one rate when it’s excess, but let them sell it back at a profit when there isn’t an excess.
Then the government doesn’t have to mandate or build anything, people will stand in line to buy something that makes them money.

... that sounds very much like the guaranteed feed-in tariff rate offered as an inducement to install solar. Potentially a good idea...but how are these not subsidies or government mandates?

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by Lake-Effect

... that sounds very much like the guaranteed feed-in tariff rate offered as an inducement to install solar. Potentially a good idea...but how are these not subsidies or government mandates?

OK, it’s both I’m sure, I misspoke
However it’s voluntary, and I guess that’s the difference, and it’s also power, and won’t be used by a politician promising whatever gets them elected.
What I don’t like is all the talk about carbon taxes etc. Cause you know that’s not what the money will be used for.
For example Georgia chose to use their tobacco settlement money to improve rural airports under the theory that would entice companies to move there.
Now do you suppose just maybe that the intent of the tobacco settlement money meant it to be used for public health in some way?

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by GordMay

1. Indeed, but Ford’s new strategy also includes committing to new propulsion choices, such as adding hybrid-electric powertrains to profitable vehicles such as the F-150, Mustang, Explorer, Escape, and Bronco.
The company will begin the rollout of its battery electric vehicles with a performance electric model in 2020. The company plans to bring 16 battery-electric vehicles to market by 2022.

2. Indeed.

And first out of the gate is a “Mustang inspired” SUV, to be followed soon I’d bet with a Pickup truck.

Electricity isn’t an unlimited resource, nor is it carbon neutral, making stupid big, heavy “performance” vehicles may sell but is not the way forward, conservation is. Want to bet that a “performance” SUV will use two to three times the power of an efficient sedan?

Making these electric will accomplish what?
https://newsuv.org/full-size-suvs/the-heaviest-suvs/

[JBP]

Originally Posted by Marvs

To be very simple about it. Cost and efficiency. Flexible solar panels are problematic, and the keel is not Serviceable . You already have a very efficient and mildly polluting mode of transportation. Better to keep it that way

Nah, it's just lack of demand. If enough people are willing to shell out enough money, I guarantee some manufacturers would create keel friendly battery shapes. Solar sails are a bit trickier because while sails have lots of surface area, it's not ideally oriented to be better than flat adjustable panels.

[Ralsy]

Production of electrically powered boats is already happening.
https://powerboating.com/aquila-44-all-electric-luxury-catamaran-offers-zero-emissions/

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

What I don’t like is all the talk about carbon taxes etc. Cause you know that’s not what the money will be used for.

That doesn't have to be the case... here's an example of a revenue-neutral carbon tax that works, without punishing the low and middle classes.

[JimJohnston]

[QUOTE=GrowleyMonster;3021140]. Diesel will be the best choice for most cruisers for some time to come. The market for fuel, electricity, etc will not be heavily impacted by EP even if it does achieve say a 50% market share. And that won't happen until someone invents a magic battery

Magic battery? Maybe......the article suggests that a battery has been "created" that will power a vehicle for up to a million miles

https://www.mining.com/researchers-i...m-ion-battery/