Inboard engines and a changing world

[a64pilot]

Guess it may be real, I didn’t read the article, but for those that care it seems it was written in 2012
https://money.cnn.com/2013/03/04/new...xes/index.html

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

Those huge government subsidies are what makes the case for an electric car, first your subsidized in buying it and can get the power for free, and oh by the way you don’t pay anything for road use taxes either.

My problem with all of that is that is the average taxpayer subsidizing the wealthy, and I think that’s wrong. The funny thing is that so many refuse to see that, they want to gloss over that, they are true believers.

Any thing, any new technology ought to stand on its own, making the poorer class subsidize the wealthier class is wrong.

But most of us, to include me, would do the same thing, I’m not saying your wrong for doing it.

A few years ago when the Electric vehicle subsidies first got started, all or most of the wealthier people in my town got free electric golf carts, to pull behind their F-150’s to go golfing on the weekend.
$7,500 subsidy just about covers the cost of a golf cart I believe.

The electric car thing will happen, based on economics, which is the way it should be, but they should pay road use tax just as all other vehicles do, and they should not be subsidized, if it’s a good viable thing and I think it is, then it will happen.

I wouldn't qualify for any subsidy I would never purchase a new vehicle . Heck the newest semi tractor I ever purchased was 3 years old and had 250k miles on it . I'm not taking the drive off depreciation hit.
We all drive used cars.
If it weren't for the charging stations at the cities marina I would not even be able to consider an ev.
I'm actually looking at something along the lines of the electric smart car 2 seater .
I would however carry a small genset to charge it if needed when I couldn't plug it in .
There have also been great strides into the drop in conversion market for something like a geo metro.
Something like this

https://www.made-in-china.com/showro...it-for-EV.html

There would still be room for a small diesel generator under the hood to recharge as needed .

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by GordMay

Typo?

no not a typo the fact is there is approximately 2 gallons of " diesel fuel" produced per gallon of gasoline produced in the refining process from crude oil to gasoline and other petroleum based products.

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by Lake-Effect

In the US, the well-off already pay absurdly low taxes. What's your point?



(yes, the EV subsidy program has been kind to the well-off)

and the poor pay basically pay no income taxes.
But that's a different topic.

[a64pilot]

Three yr old Leaf’s can be had for $10K or less.
https://www.carfax.com/Used-Nissan-Leaf_w536
Pretty cheap for a three yr old car

New a Leaf sells for between $30K and $36K I believe, so in three years it’s worth a third of its new price?

[a64pilot]

Than as a reference new Prius seems to sell for about $26K,but at three yrs old it’s worth between about $16 to $20K
https://www.carfax.com/Used-2016-Toyota-Prius_z17186

Note I have no idea if a Prius holds its value well or not, but the Leaf EV sure doesn’t seem to, and I assume it’s an OK car?

I have looked at the Leaf’s in the past due to my interest is only in economy cars or maybe sorts cars, but I’ve aged out of luxury cars I guess.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by newhaul

no not a typo the fact is there is approximately 2 gallons of " diesel fuel" produced per gallon of gasoline produced in the refining process from crude oil to gasoline and other petroleum based products.

I believe you have it reversed. Quick goodle search suggests 46% gasoline and 26% diesel and other liquid fuels.

Of course, it also depends on the type of crude oil and the goal of the refiner (and associated refining process). If they want more gasoline, they use a cracking process that generates a higher percentage of gasoline.

https://petroleumservicecompany.com/...lon-breakdown/

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by newhaul

no not a typo the fact is there is approximately 2 gallons of " diesel fuel" produced per gallon of gasoline produced in the refining process from crude oil to gasoline and other petroleum based products.

Fair enough, if you can support that statement (which I, along with valhalla, doubt*).
But, my question was regarding your quoted statement ... "Diesel fuel isn't a supply and demand product..."
Typo?


* According to the U.S. Energy Information Administration
“Petroleum refineries in the United States produce about 19 to 20 gallons of motor gasoline and 11 to 12 gallons of ultra-low sulfur distillate fuel oil (most of which is sold as diesel fuel and in several states as heating oil) from one 42-gallon barrel of crude oil.”
➥ https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=327&t=9

Originally Posted by valhalla360

I believe you have it reversed. Quick goodle search suggests 46% gasoline and 26% diesel and other liquid fuels...
https://petroleumservicecompany.com/...lon-breakdown/

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by GordMay

Fair enough, if you can support that statement (which I, along with valhalla, doubt*).
But, my question was regarding your quoted statement ... "Diesel fuel isn't a supply and demand product..."
Typo?


* According to the U.S. Energy Information Administration
“Petroleum refineries in the United States produce about 19 to 20 gallons of motor gasoline and 11 to 12 gallons of ultra-low sulfur distillate fuel oil (most of which is sold as diesel fuel and in several states as heating oil) from one 42-gallon barrel of crude oil.”
➥ https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=327&t=9

I will concede that with modern cracking there is a higher percentage of gasoline to diesel fuels by the link valhalla posted we get 46% of a barrel as gasoline and 35 to 36% as diesel fuels. From heavy diesel to kerosene and jet fuel which are diesel fuels ( good for either compression ignition as well as turbine engines. )

the fact however does remain that " diesel fuel" is here for the foreseeable future

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

I believe you have it reversed. Quick goodle search suggests]

goodle?
Reminds of a iirc a futurama episode

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

Than as a reference new Prius seems to sell for about $26K,but at three yrs old it’s worth between about $16 to $20K
https://www.carfax.com/Used-2016-Toyota-Prius_z17186

Note I have no idea if a Prius holds its value well or not, but the Leaf EV sure doesn’t seem to, and I assume it’s an OK car?

I have looked at the Leaf’s in the past due to my interest is only in economy cars or maybe sorts cars, but I’ve aged out of luxury cars I guess.

here is one local to me a 2015 prius at a dealer for $8k
https://seattle.craigslist.org/est/c...024044585.html
So it seems that no they don't hold their value well

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by newhaul

I will concede that with modern cracking there is a higher percentage of gasoline to diesel fuels by the link valhalla posted we get 46% of a barrel as gasoline and 35 to 36% as diesel fuels. From heavy diesel to kerosene and jet fuel which are diesel fuels ( good for either compression ignition as well as turbine engines. )

the fact however does remain that " diesel fuel" is here for the foreseeable future

By this logic, you can use gasoline if you modify the diesel properly (ever hear an old carburated car that would continue to run after turning the key off...it's also called dieseling because it's compression igniting off the remaining fuel being pulled in even though the spark has been stopped). No one is putting jet fuel in their boats diesel engine.

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

By this logic, you can use gasoline if you modify the diesel properly (ever hear an old carburated car that would continue to run after turning the key off...it's also called dieseling because it's compression igniting off the remaining fuel being pulled in even though the spark has been stopped). No one is putting jet fuel in their boats diesel engine.

jet fuel is none the less a diesel fuel at least that's what the 7 refineries her say

Jet fuel is a clear to straw-colored fuel, based on either an unleaded kerosene (Jet A-1), or a naphtha-kerosene blend (Jet B). Similar to diesel fuel, it can be used in either compression ignition engines or turbine engines.[citation needed]

Jet-A powers modern commercial airliners and is a mix of pure kerosene and burns at temperatures at or above 49 °C (120 °F). Kerosene-based fuel has a much higher flash point than gasoline-based fuel, meaning that it requires significantly higher temperature to ignite. It is a high-quality fuel; if it fails the purity and other quality tests for use on jet aircraft, it is sold to other ground-based users with less demanding requirements, such as railroad engines

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aviation_fuel#Jet_fuel

We have 2 refineries in my area that actually specialise in jet fuel due to the SeaTac airport as well as the USAF and NAS bases here . You can't actually run your car on any grade of " diesel" from #2 farm all the way up to #1kerosene spark ignition is just not hot enough for proper flashing. And yes you can run a diesel marine engine on jet fuel . The navy does it every day ( jp5)

all of this is splitting hairs but does show the fact that the marine diesel is here to stay.

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by newhaul

... all of this is splitting hairs but does show the fact that the marine diesel is here to stay.

I know that you’re impatient with any insistence on factual accuracy; but when your uncorroborated assertions of “fact” (which turn out to be fallacies) seem to be so profoundly, and dependably wrong, it’s not inconceivable that your conclusions may be similarity dependably false.

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by newhaul

here is one local to me a 2015 prius at a dealer for $8k

https://seattle.craigslist.org/est/c...024044585.html

So it seems that no they don't hold their value well

Yeah, I guarantee if you do a little search you’ll find out why.
Before we bought ours I was searching for used ones and found several really good priced ones in one place in Alabama, well turns out they were really cheap, did have the mileage specified, and had a salvage title too, as they were rebuilt totaled cars.

The way to find out what cars go for is go to a reputable used car site that lists cars for sale, and they you get an idea, now of course that’s asking prices, but if you look at say a dozen or so, you’ll get a good idea of what they sell for.

But to take your point, yes your correct the Prius has not sold as well as Toyota had hoped, and I’m sure it’s resale value is down.
Toyota had planned a whole Prius line like the Lexus for example, they already had little vans like transit vans etc built, I’m sure all on the Prius platform, but then fuel prices dropped and the average guy got used to paying $3 a gl for fuel, and Hybrids didn’t sell well anymore.
All the Hollywood smugness etc has worn off.

Did you see this South Park episode? If not watch the Southpark Prius episode on YouTube, it’s hilarious. They didn’t call it a Prius, but it’s obvious.
https://youtu.be/gXZeq9eXAys