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Old 16-01-2007, 17:16   #16
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Originally Posted by capt lar
Sean - I always question that "bigger boat for bigger seas" statement. True you will make better time and have more comfort, assuming you have the crew. I know there are couples who sail big boats long distances, but I feel more confident in a smaller boat. Look at Donna Lange in her 28' Southern Cross. Little boats, by their nature and design, have less to go wrong. For a cruising couple, I still think buying as little boat as you can live on is the way.
Actually, I mostly single hand, other than my wife doing "this or that" at this time. She's good, but some of the forces are too great for her. I sure am a fan of smaller boats, as I said above. I'd never knock them. I do wish I had one. The grass is always greener.

But... when you get on a bigger boat (more displacement), it just doesn't get smacked around by the sea the same way a small boat does. Also, while in anchorage, the smaller boats tend to roll more. I say this from experience going from an O'day 302 to a Gulfstar Hirsh 45. Also, the megayachts I worked on were much more comfortable at sea than the boat I'm on now. Cruise ships are pretty comfortable. People don't usually have a rough ride in those. I like the small boats, but in my experience, they don't take the pounding as well when things kick up a bit. Just a function of displacement and possibly LWL, but not as sure about that last quantity.
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Old 16-01-2007, 17:39   #17
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I would certainly love to have that extra ten feet on the hook !
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Old 16-01-2007, 21:37   #18
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Originally Posted by cat man do
Some of these new Pescott cats and quite a few of the older breeds like Seawind 24 can collapse on a trailer and be assembled in a few hour's.

Fast and fun, just drive 'em up onto the beach and step off, no dinghy required.

Great for going to windward at 100kph up the highway and then heading out to your favourite cruising ground.

Farriers tri's fold up a lot quicker, just a whole lot more expensive.

Dave
Hey Dave,

I recognize those boats! They are super-fast fireflies built by Latitude 8 yachts here in Thailand. Were those pix taken at Phuket King's Cup Regatta?
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Old 16-01-2007, 21:49   #19
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Hey Dave,

I recognize those boats! They are super-fast fireflies built by Latitude 8 yachts here in Thailand. Were those pix taken at Phuket King's Cup Regatta?
Indeed they were, just not by me, maybe next year.

I've sailed on some of Mark Pescott's designs over the year's and was alway's impressed at how well they sailed.

Dave
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Old 16-01-2007, 21:49   #20
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A small boat with money in the bank is nice IF you don't have money in the bank.

Well, my 26'er is paid for and I am making mods while I get ready to go cruising. Although I do agree with the Big boat for big seas people so, the Bahamas and US waterways is for me. A little comprimise in where I can go is worth it to be on the hook every night and money in the bank.

Leaving in 1 year is very real and have a 3 to 5 year cruise. With more expensive boat I would have to waite another year or more.
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Old 17-01-2007, 07:13   #21
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Originally Posted by capt lar
Sean - I always question that "bigger boat for bigger seas" statement.
I question it, as well.

My seagoing experience covers a spectrum from the sea kayak along coastal Maine to an 85' fishing vessel on the Gulf of Alaska and Bering Sea. My gut has always felt that when the boat is small, I'm taking care of her, and, when the boat is large, she's taking care of me.

Put another way, I feel that with a smaller boat it is easier for a captain and crew to overcome "behavioral problems" associated with design than it is with a larger boat.
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Old 17-01-2007, 07:59   #22
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Originally Posted by ssullivan
I can't even begin to imagine how great those Connecticut River trips were. Those are times that don't seem to happen so much anymore.
That raft was my first "liveaboard" boat. It was the result of curious kids who loved to watch the river during the springtime flooding. When the waters would get high enough to jump the banks, its reach expanded well into the farm fields of my hometown.

A typically "boy" response to water is to throw things into it. One April day, when I was 14, my friends and I were doing just that. Then, along the water's edge we found a couple of 50 gallon steel drums that had floated into the trees. We strapped a couple of planks to them, found some other boards for makeshift paddles and floated off into the flooded field. That moment became the impetus for "Foxy Lady," our 16' liveaboard raft. (We were Hendrix fans who also named our canoe after one of his songs - "Wild Thing.")

The raft was built in secret, lest our parents find out and put a halt to the project. Eventually (a year later), we'd collected six steel drums and enough dimensional lumber to build the raft. (It's amazing how much "stuff" gets delivered by floodwaters to young kids like us.) We put it together at a "secret" site under the railroad bridge near the confluence of the Waits River with the Connecticut River (Bradford, Vermont). We launched her for the maiden voyage after school one April afternoon after school. (I'm not sure we planned to do it that day. We were just sitting there thinking, "she seems ready," and next thing you know, off we went.) Without a complete deck (still searching for enough 2x6's), without PFD's (the water was about 40 degrees), and without any clue as to the potential dangers, we shoved our raft into the river and used the paddles (1x6 planks) to keep her midstream and out of the "strainers" (trees that overhang the river's edge whose branches extend into the waters at flood stage).

We floated 10 miles downstream that afternoon, eventually coming ashore at a riverside boat launch. My friend Ralph and I walked into the village and dialed my dad from a payphone.

"Dad, can you come pick us up in Fairlee?"
"How'd you get there?"
"Um, well, um, we'll show you when you get here."

As a parent who seemed more aware of the dangers than Ralph and I, my dad "went through the roof" when he saw that raft, but he knew that he'd have a serious rebellion on his hands if he tried to tell us to stay away from the river. He borrowed a friend's truck and flatbed trailer, helped us load and transport "Foxy Lady" back to my friend Ralph's house for improvements (completed deck, supply boxes, stove, etc.) and shuttled the whole show to and from the river each Spring when we'd take it on our weeklong trips. The annual adventure began by dropping the raft and supplies at the base of the Rygate dam, then driving to Littleton, NH where we'd launch our canoe on the whitewaters of the Ammonusac River. After surviving 20 miles of fast, cold water, we'd paddle the short stretch upstream on the Connecticut River, pull our raft out of the bushes and push off to spend the rest of the week drifting downstream with canoe in tow. Along the way we'd fish, shoot an occasional duck for dinner, and talk endlessly about who knows what (girls and future fun, most likely).

What was to become a lifetime of adventures was well under way in those early days . . .
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Old 17-01-2007, 08:17   #23
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Kevin,

You have the makings of a riveting book there! Especially one for local presses. I know I'd buy a copy. It would make for a great summer afternoon read. Also, you do make an interesting point about larger vessels taking care of you, while you take care of smaller vessels. That does seem accurate. But... at the same time, I have been out in stuff in my 30 footer where I was a bit nervous. In this boat, I barely feel it in the same conditions.

Bigger isn't right for everyone... and I sure miss the freedom that comes along with a smaller boat (less complexity usually and less hit on the wallet). As with everything on boats - yet another compromise, I think.
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Old 17-01-2007, 08:44   #24
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Originally Posted by ssullivan
. . . you do make an interesting point about larger vessels taking care of you, while you take care of smaller vessels. That does seem accurate. But... at the same time, I have been out in stuff in my 30 footer where I was a bit nervous. In this boat, I barely feel it in the same conditions.
I have a good friend who seems to be spending his lifetime in search of the "perfect boat." He buys then sells, buys then sells . . . endlessly. It probably should be more correctly phrased as the "perfect compromise."

I agree with you about taking on similar conditions in different boats. It has been the smaller ones on which I have been most indelibly humbled (read: had the sh@t scared out of me), but I've often wondered if I wouldn't rather be on the smaller ones if the boat were overwhelmed by the sea (i.e. would I rather experience a rollover on a large boat or a small one?).

I suppose that thought is an expansion of the question originally posed by this thread. Beyond the pros and cons of the boat that may be best suited for those days we all dream of, I've wandered into the realm of questioning what I'd rather be aboard in the nightmares.
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Old 17-01-2007, 09:05   #25
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I love my 40 footer (I live aboard).
If anyone reads Cruising World aka Charter World and the BOTY ads you'd realize that 40' is a smaller boat these days.
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Old 17-01-2007, 10:08   #26
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Raven, you describe what kids should be doing - going out and having their own adventures and learning about life. Making mistakes, remembering them and working how not to make them again is what that kind of thing is all about. How sad that present generation kids rarely have that sort of opportunity now. If its not the kids being too lazy its the parents worried about what predators (the two legged kind) lie behind every blade of grass or that they might cut their knees and be blemished for life. We all took our cuts and bruises as badges of honour - now its piercings and tattoos as early as they can.

Anyway a great post - the mental imagery brought a big smile to my face - messing about in boats - fabulous!
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Old 17-01-2007, 10:16   #27
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Alone at Sea

In 1956, Dr Hans Lindemann set sail from the Canary Islands in a folding kayak with a sailing rig. At the time, he'd been experimenting with various theories of sleep deprivation. The voyage was a test of those theories and a chance to gather some first-hand data. I read his book, "Alone At Sea," when it came out back in 1993. I can't remember too clearly, but I think I recall him saying that he never slept for more than 15 minutes at a time. Near the end of his journey, he was rolled and unable to right his heavily laden kayak for a period of a day or two. He clung to the hull during that time and ultimately got it back upright, finishing his voyage a short time later in Puerto Rico.

Along those same lines, the sailor Donna Lange (currently on a singlehanded circumnavigation aboard her 28' Southern Cross, "Inspired Insanity") stayed at the helm for the final 27 days of her crossing of the Atlantic from Rhode Island to Ireland (2002).

Beyond demonstrating the capabilities of small boats, both of those sailors showed how the limits of the human capability can be expanded when the situation warrants.
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Old 17-01-2007, 10:27   #28
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Raven, you describe what kids should be doing - going out and having their own adventures and learning about life . . . We all took our cuts and bruises as badges of honour . . . messing about in boats - fabulous!
This year I'll be celebrating a half-century of "life," yet I'm still just beginning to reveal to my parents the details of what went on during my youth.

During the school breaks, my mom would send us out the door with the warning, "Don't come back until dinner time!" We had a grand time making it up as we went - quite a contrast to today's overscheduled, overprotected youth, living in in the shadow of their parents' fear of what's around the next corner. Yep, the times they are a changin' . . .
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Old 19-01-2007, 18:05   #29
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[quote=Raven]In 1956, Dr Hans Lindemann set sail from the Canary Islands in a folding kayak with a sailing rig. At the time, he'd been experimenting with various theories of sleep deprivation. The voyage was a test of those theories and a chance to gather some first-hand data. I read his book, "Alone At Sea," when it came out back in 1993.

I was lucky enough to meet Dr. Lindemann at the West Coast Sea Kayaking Symposium, I think it was around 1993 or 1994. Got an autographed copy of his book. He also had a great presentation of his two crossings. I doubt that he is still with us, he must have been 80 when I met him.
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Old 22-01-2007, 16:27   #30
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I think the biggest reason a person enjoys a smaller boat over a larger one is the ease of actually going sailing. It is more fun for me to unhook from the dock with a 27' boat than being on a 40-45' yacht especially if you want just to go on a day sail.

30-35' is probably the largest I will ever go for a boat. That should be the right mix of sea ability and cost.
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