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Old 24-12-2008, 21:33   #31
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I apologize, I was thinking Greenwich Conn. They left from East Greenwich RI.

The Race was not a factor. I'm so accustomed timing that current just right..on my way to and from Block island..I lost my bearings......so much for that part of my fiction....
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Old 29-12-2008, 06:24   #32
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In the age of the EPIRB, I suppose it's just too easy to call for help. Don't get me wrong, it's a wonderful device that has undoubtably saved thousands of lives ...

What I mean is that I believe there is more often than not a point between stuff heading fanward and actually striking the blades that a careful assesment, followed by sound problem solving, could stave off disaster. But with a big orange (or yellow) panic button staring at you from the bulkhead, this process is easily short-circuited.

Now, I am not saying that popping an EPIRB before things go completely pear-shaped is wrong. No doubt that a percentage of the time it turns out to be the correct decision -- as conditions deteriorate further and then rescue is there in time. I'm only saying that for x percent of the time, it is undoubtably the wrong move - a rescue is put in motion when the crew could have made its way out of trouble.
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Old 29-12-2008, 08:30   #33
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lots of folks come on the board and ask what is the big deal about heading offshore in heavy weather, they are experienced and the boat is sound. Here is one example of a not too smart decision
There is no point commenting on the crew as we don’t know them and we were not there.

They don’t matter in this discussion, but what does matter is the implied message that a Gale of this caliber (not a storm) is something to be feared!

For those of us who have sailed many times in those conditions (and much worse), the sea is always to be respected, never feared!

Prepare your craft, but above all else, prepare yourself to proactively deal with whatever comes your way in this kind of weather and your judgments will be sound and seamanly without the debilitating panic that fear and the accompanying seasickness induces.

Commercial sailors often must go out in this weather to make a living but recreational sailors always have that choice to wait for conditions that are better suited to their weakest link.

They just sometimes forget that it is called “pleasure” boating and think the boat will take care of them.
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Old 29-12-2008, 08:47   #34
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Right.....Personally, I see nothing pleasurable about sailing in a gale in december in new england.
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Old 29-12-2008, 12:51   #35
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I like sailing in a good blow....fact is, I need a good blow to get my boat going.

Although I would prefer not to be in 12 ft seas, 40kts is not a big deal....I know that my boat is perfectly happy and safe in those conditions.

I can understand them departing knowing these conditions were probable...It shouldn’t have been a big deal for the boat...

However knowing you and your crews capabilities could have been the deciding factor.

Having said that, even if everyone was temporarily incapacitated...ride it out.

In my opinion if you call for help its because there is a medical emergency or you believe the vessel WILL be lost….not may be lost…WILL be lost.

I may be a hard ass when it comes to this, but that’s my rule…and every one who sails with me knows it!
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Old 29-12-2008, 13:15   #36
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In my opinion if you call for help its because there is a medical emergency or you believe the vessel WILL be lost….not may be lost…WILL be lost.

I may be a hard ass when it comes to this, but that’s my rule…and every one who sails with me knows it!


Now that's what I call a GOOD RULE!


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Where did I read that before??????????
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Old 29-12-2008, 13:41   #37
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Unfortunately there are more unseasoned people on the water than not. There should be an inquirey as to the real need for an SOS. If the cost of rescue had to be paid, if deemed the rescue was not necessary. It might make people think twice about going beyond their capability. I believe the CG no longer towing dumb asses was a step in the right direction. But since that's not new, it didn't solve the whole problem.
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Old 29-12-2008, 15:28   #38
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Seems as though a lot of people on this board are quick to judge.
When any type of resource gets posted it can happen but not because of a designed purpose of the forum. Nearly all the time the assumptions made about the facts are always wrong thus leading to what ever end conclusion you care to imagine. Often enough the folks involved hear about it being discussed and show up to at least deny the assumptions made, thank those that may have made remarks of a kind nature, and generally tell what usually was 100% wrong. I'm not sure those should be the methods to uncover more details when none are available at this time. Speculative information seems to be generated on it's own.

Offering critical remarks with essentially no real information at all seems reckless and insulting at least. It is especially disconcerting to know they are being directed at specific people with hurtful intention.

Assessing what might be done in the theoretical context is something we can get into in the Challenges section as we do on a regular basis but making a hurtful game out of these specific situations with real people isn't about the true spirit of the Cruisers Forum. The attempts to learn from real mistakes is being abused in the extreme by casting blame with made up facts to satisfy some other personal interest.

If some find this topic upsetting it might be because it really is.
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Old 29-12-2008, 15:44   #39
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But for the Grace of God……

Cadence, I understand your sentiments, but crew who feel the need to be rescued….in my opinion….need to be rescued! I don’t begrudge them getting help.

30 years ago, people who ventured out of sight of land had limited weather updates, only DR and celestial to find their way, with the sobering thought that if they got lost, they were on their own! Those facts made them better and safer sailors.

The conveniences of GPS and cell phones have misled so many good people to think it is easy out there and the marine marketing industry continually reinforces that idea in order to sell the latest products.

Pro-gress usually takes the professional out of the equation and waters down the community. That is the price we all pay for making it appear to be so dam easy.
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Old 29-12-2008, 16:31   #40
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Cadence, I understand your sentiments, but crew who feel the need to be rescued….in my opinion….need to be rescued! I don’t begrudge them getting help.
WOW!!! I couldn't disagree more with that comment.

The "need to be rescued", should lie solely in the hands of the skipper.

Rescue is serious business and often implies the the risk of the safety of others (the rescuers). This decision should NEVER be left in the hands of a sea-sick or even injured crew-member or guest IMO. The skipper and only the skipper should make that decision and be responsible for the decision made......right or wrong.
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Old 29-12-2008, 17:09   #41
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Cadence, I understand your sentiments, but crew who feel the need to be rescued….in my opinion….need to be rescued! I don’t begrudge them getting help.
There are numerous cases where the skip intends to go on but the crew is coming apart.

If we understand the premise that everything on the boat is the skippers responsibility then it follows that a crew that "gives up" or can't function as crew in adverse conditions is the responsibility of the skipper.

That is the problem with pick-up crew. You don't know their level of experience or commitment.

Regardless the skipper has to ensure by proper preparation and training that when he calls all hands on deck he doesn't have 3/4 of his crew dysfunctional.
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Old 29-12-2008, 18:00   #42
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The Captian should be King.

IMHO.....For all persons volintarly aboard except children under age and the mentally ill... Going to sea in a privet vessel should be much like getting an operation in a hospital .

You basically sign your fate into the hands of someone else with out recourse... in our case that would be the skipper ..period.. IMHO...choose your skipper/boat as carefully as you would choose your surgeon or dont enter the operating room...because you have no vote once put under/way.
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Old 30-12-2008, 00:23   #43
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The Captian should be King.

IMHO.....For all persons volintarly aboard except children under age and the mentally ill... Going to sea in a privet vessel should be much like getting an operation in a hospital .

You basically sign your fate into the hands of someone else with out recourse... in our case that would be the skipper ..period.. IMHO...choose your skipper/boat as carefully as you would choose your surgeon or dont enter the operating room...because you have no vote once put under/way.

That’s right...and that's exactly why I make my position very clear before casting off lines....If you don’t agree then you can get off.

If I make a decision once we've left land that everyone disagrees with, then that’s when my captaining skills /worth are truly put to the test....for me, its like in business, "a happy crew is a productive crew" I can certainly be swayed, and go with the flow...no problem.

But not when it comes to an SOS because someone is uncomfortable.
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Old 30-12-2008, 03:50   #44
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Ah! But for one word?

Sorry guys I should have chosen my words more carefully. Thinking as a rescuer or the taxpayer paying for it, ……the word “Crew” was all inclusive including the captain.

I agree with you all that the person in command should be the only one calling the shots but when the whole crew becomes dysfunctional and the boat is being shredded thru neglect…. a wise skipper should be thinking of ways to inject hope into them and get them safely ashore. (Before they Mutiny)

If that includes calling in the CG to hold their hands, I still don’t begrudge that.

Better the skipper looses face than loose a panicked crewmember.
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Old 30-12-2008, 06:31   #45
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I sail my boat just like I run my business. If my whole crew walked out on me. I would still be hanging mufflers. I can run the business alone, and still make the same profit. As far as the boat. I don't need crew. I can sail her alone. I will never put my boat in the situation where I have to depend on others. The same goes for my business.

When I left S.F. for Mexico alone. I was so sick for 2 days. I thought I might die. I knew I wasn't going to, but death at times seemed a good alternative.....lololololol.

When I was thrown from my boat, and hurt my back so much I was peeing in my foulies, because I couldn't move. A cruise ship came over the horizon, and I actually picked up the VHF mic. I couldn't bring myself to call them. All I wanted was someone to put my fuel in the tank from the jerry cans. The wind had died, and I was motoring for 12 hours. I couldn't bring myself to call, and watched them disappear over the horizon. Eventually I forced myself to fill the tank. I did it through excruciating pain, and buckets of tears, but I did it, and eventually sailed on to Cabo.

The boat off of New Zealand where the crew pushed the EASY BUTTON, but the skipper thought things were fine. When the helicopter came I would have been happy to see them go. They could have never taken me from my boat. I would have proven them wrong by sailing into my intended destination.

When Isabel Autissier (?) was rolled in the Southern Ocean. She declined being pulled from the boat. She rigged the boat, and sailed on. These are the kind of things you need to do when sailing. We claim we are resourceful, and independent. Then let's act that way.

If I hit a container, and my boat was going down. Hell yes I would want to be rescued. I have no death wish. I do have a responsibility to my boat, myself, and the ones who will rescue their lives to save my butt. I am no John Wayne, but what I am is responsible for my decision to go to sea.

I think you need a certain amount of intestinal fortitude to go to sea. I think you need to be willing to suffer at times. I know you need to be willing to suffer at times. Our Mother the Ocean is not an evil thing. She has her moods, and you better be prepared to deal with them, or stay on the bays, rivers, and small lakes. There is no shame in sailing on protected waters. You need to know your own limits. I would love to drive Formula 1 cars, but I know going down I-95 with cars in the other lane is pretty much my limit.

This being politically correct to those that abandon their vessels, because they are cold, etc. etc. That's a bunch of....well you know what it is. It's simply wrong! The internet has changed our world, and it's something we need to accept. If you have made a bonehead move then live with it. Especially when you put others at risk for their lives, because you're cold?

The problem is the world is going soft, and turning weak. Excuses are being allowed for mistakes made, or even BAD behaviour. People are getting to the point that they feel no responsibility for their actions. We see it in every facet of society.

When you pull yourself through the tough times. The sweet times will be that much sweeter:cubalibre. Fortunately the sweet times are the biggest %.........i2f
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