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Old 24-01-2008, 01:42   #61
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I believe that it was only when a "foreign" yacht owner took them to court that the legislation was thrown out for foreign flagged yachts, unfortunately we kiwi's are still obliged to comply!
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Old 24-01-2008, 05:03   #62
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IDIOT, and when he calls for help, they should charge him double. That's the trouble with the metality today, people go out completely unprepared expecting everyone to jump when they get into trouble. You are not a hero or adventurer if you do everything tethered to a satelite phone ready to call in the calvary at the slightest problem. I fear self reliance is a fading concept, except among most long distance cruisers. Just listen to the calls on any weekend and you will see what I mean.
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Old 24-01-2008, 06:06   #63
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Vann's latest blog entries have photos and CAD images of his boat. It's a strange design, but his current naval architect, Yves-Marie Tanton, seems to be well-established in the trade (Google him). Maybe we'll be surprised by it's performance!
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Old 24-01-2008, 09:23   #64
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I believe that it was only when a "foreign" yacht owner took them to court that the legislation was thrown out for foreign flagged yachts, unfortunately we kiwi's are still obliged to comply!
It was actually public pressure that forced the NZ government to revoke that law.

Kanani was the first vessel to test that law (Feb 2 1995). I almost lost my boat over that mess. I went through hell in that whole ordeal. I did it because I love NZ and the people of NZ.
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Old 24-01-2008, 11:53   #65
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Wow, I didn't realise it was you Kanani. Could you tell us more of the story??
Sadly that law is about to return. I have no idea of what they(Government) have done, but apparently they have reworked that law to close all the gaps you seemed to have slipped through. Just how they expect to impose it on overseas vessels, I have no idea. But it maybe that to gain entry to NZ, you may have had to fill out some document that say's you have meet all safety requirments as expressed in the Cat1 requirements. I think the "loophole" you slipped through, was that it was unfair to expect an overseas boat to enter NZ and then to meet the NZ standards.
It may have been public pressure on your part and maybe that was indeed all it was. But a NZ magazine publish that it was due to some legal body finding that the then NZ law did not have the Authority to to impose Cat1 regulations on a visiting foreign liesure vessel.
The stupid thing about the "Cat" standards is, (as I understand it)I can sail as far as I want to, as long as I don't enter another countries territorial waters. I can sail to the edge of those waters and all the way back to NZ again with out having any of those "Cat" requirements. But if I enter another country, I must have firstly met the requirements of "Cat1" before I can leave NZ. "Cat1,2,3, are required if I am in an orginised Race.
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Old 24-01-2008, 13:11   #66
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Wow, I didn't realise it was you Kanani. Could you tell us more of the story??
Sadly that law is about to return. I have no idea of what they(Government) have done, but apparently they have reworked that law to close all the gaps you seemed to have slipped through. Just how they expect to impose it on overseas vessels, I have no idea. But it maybe that to gain entry to NZ, you may have had to fill out some document that say's you have meet all safety requirments as expressed in the Cat1 requirements. I think the "loophole" you slipped through, was that it was unfair to expect an overseas boat to enter NZ and then to meet the NZ standards.
It may have been public pressure on your part and maybe that was indeed all it was. But a NZ magazine publish that it was due to some legal body finding that the then NZ law did not have the Authority to to impose Cat1 regulations on a visiting foreign liesure vessel.
The stupid thing about the "Cat" standards is, (as I understand it)I can sail as far as I want to, as long as I don't enter another countries territorial waters. I can sail to the edge of those waters and all the way back to NZ again with out having any of those "Cat" requirements. But if I enter another country, I must have firstly met the requirements of "Cat1" before I can leave NZ. "Cat1,2,3, are required if I am in an orginised Race.
I hope that you're not sorry that you asked.........

When we entered NZ in Oct '94, we had no idea that the NZ government was planning on enacting legislation that would restrict vessels, currently in the country, from leaving port without passing their Cat 1 inspection.

When we went to Customs on Feb 1st to check out for Brisbane, Australia, the Customs Officer told me that we had to have a vessel inspection before he could issue my clearance. Now, you must understand that we were boon-docking for 3 months and knew absolutely nothing about this. Feb 1 just happened to be the perfect weather window for us and was critical due to the fact that it was cyclone season.

I told the Customs officer to go ahead and do the inspection, Our dinghy is on deck and we are ready to cast the lines off. He said that he wasn't exactly sure who did the inspection and how it was all to work. I said, "What the hell are you talking about, I'm ready to leave here". He made a few phone calls and told me that the inspector hadn't yet been appointed (although the law was in effect) and that they would get someone from the yacht club over to talk to me. I said, "You people are not thinking straight here. I have an 1100 mile passage to make and I picked this day to start this passage due to weather. I have no intention to stick around and wait for you guys to work this out. I'm leaving".

I walked down to my boat and by the time that I got there, the press was there (seemed that idiot wanted his name in the paper). They started asking me questions and I just got on-board and started preparing to cast-off (with no clearance). About that time, a harbor police boat came along side and told me that if I tried to leave, they would arrest me and impound our boat.

Then, Mr Oram showed up at my boat. He ran the yachting syndicate in NZ at that time. He invited my wife and I to his office to meet with some other people. He better explained exactly what was going on and how this new law would potentially impact to his and other's business in NZ. He asked me to stick around (at his expense) for a week or two and help them fight the new law.

It caused quite a ruckus for the yachties that were currently in the country. A lot of boats just pulled up anchor and left without clearing. A lot of boats threatened never to return to NZ. In the end, after speaking all over the country, I had the inspection done and (of course) passed with no problem. The other option was to have my boat impounded if I tried to leave. Mr Oram paid the $100 fee. The bigger problem was that we were hit by a cyclone on that passage after being delayed for 10 days. I wrote a letter to the Prime Minister (from Australia) and made it perfectly clear that his government nearly cost us our lives by their tactics.

About 6 months after we left, we received a very nice letter of apology from the Prime Minister himself. He let me know that the law had been repealed and that we were instrumental in helping with that process. I thought that was a nice gesture.

As for them reenacting the law......I don't have a problem with any country enacting any law that they want to. What I (and everyone else) had a problem with was the fact that they refused to grandfather in the yachts that were currently in the country and let them clear without having to go through the hassle and expense of their inspection. It was all quite a surprise to me. They wanted me to pay them $100 to inspect my boat so that I could go out and sail in international waters. Even under the new law, a yacht could enter the country, sail all the way down to Stewart Island, cross the 2 most dangerous stretches of water in the world and not be inspected. When it came time to leave and head into international waters, they required foreign yachts (that had to sail thousands of miles to get there) to be inspected. Had we known, in advance, that NZ would require us to conform to their Cat 1 regulations in order to sail NZ waters, that would have been a completely different story. At least we would have had the option of giving NZ a miss. If we had of been told upon entry that this law was going to take effect on Feb 1, 1995, we aould have been sure to leave the day before. Not one word was said about any law when we entered.

The big reason that the law failed was because in order to require foreign yachts to pass Cat 1, to sail in NZ waters, they would have to require all NZ vessels to conform to the same law. NZ could not require foreign yachts to conform to laws that they didn't require of their own citizens (according to international laws). I really don't know how they will overcome that hurtle. They will have to make it a condition of their entry visa. However, foreign yachts should have the requirement of having the inspection done outside of NZ. It seems kinda crazy to make the foreign yacht conform to this inspection upon departure of NZ because the trip down there and sailing in NZ waters is the most dangerous part. It is clearly a tactic to increase products sold in NZ. If this had anything to do with safety, it would be required before entering NZ waters but in order to do that, they would have to require every boat that sails in NZ (including NZ citizens) to fall under the same law.

No other country in the world can understand exactly the impact that sailing has in NZ. People reading this in the US have no idea how this sort of thing effects the avg Joe in NZ. In fact, I couldn't believe it until I saw pictures of Kanani plastered all over the headlines in every paper in NZ on Feb 2, 1995. Sailing is a BIG DEAL there. In the US, it may have made 3rd page in some local paper in some podunk town. Not in NZ.
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Old 24-01-2008, 14:05   #67
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back to the original topic, has this guy left yet? If not, he's probably missed the boat (so to speak) for this summer.
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Old 24-01-2008, 15:07   #68
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Man.....I just went back and looked at the pics of that piece of crap. Can you imagine what it will sound like inside that thing.

The hull is slab sided. The pounding will be deafening.

Those slab sides are going to create a tremendous amount of leverage against that goofy looking framework. I can't imagine anything withstanding the twisting that thing will under-go. All of the attaching points are very small the stresses are not well spread out like on most multis. I don't think that he's gonna get far.
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Old 24-01-2008, 15:29   #69
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All of the attaching points are very small the stresses are not well spread out like on most multis. I don't think that he's gonna get far.
I agree that was the first thing I noticed when I looked at the pictures.
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Old 24-01-2008, 15:45   #70
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Your tax dollars at work

Don't worry, your (and my) tax dollars at work will save him from himself.
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Old 24-01-2008, 16:52   #71
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Im shocked that Yves-Marie Tanton is putting his name anywhere near this disaster. He has some interesting designs, (that i really enjoy overall) but i can't imagine this thing being safe.
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Old 24-01-2008, 17:06   #72
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Don't worry, your (and my) tax dollars at work will save him from himself.
Thats OK I guess. I feel rich because Uncle Sam is going to give me 1200 dollars . Check it out man, I think its stupid but it will help offset the out my pocket cost of his rescue.
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Old 24-01-2008, 17:09   #73
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Check it out man

Tax rebate deal could mean checks by May - Yahoo! News
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Old 24-01-2008, 19:27   #74
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Just reading a new sailing book (Two in a Boat by Gwyneth Lewis). Early on, she quotes "early race rules" as saying that:

"Any skipper who is unable to remain alive by his own efforts is expected to die with dignity."

Hmmm...

Incidentally, nice read. They sailed a Nicholson 35 from England to Spain (and apparently back again, since it's for sale in England.)

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Old 24-01-2008, 19:29   #75
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Just reading a new sailing book (Two in a Boat by Gwyneth Lewis). Early on, she quotes "early race rules" as saying that:

"Any skipper who is unable to remain alive by his own efforts is expected to die with dignity."

Hmmm...

Incidentally, nice read. They sailed a Nicholson 35 from England to Spain (and apparently back again, since it's for sale in England) but didn't really know what they were doing. Ran into a host of problems, nautical, spiritual, and marital.

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