ICW "Pirates". Have you Seen?

[Captaintim1]

Or they could be checking this forum and staying away from anywhere we all think they may be... Irony...

[jtsailjt]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Lighten up.. or... if you cannot... stay away from threads like this and stick to comfortable cruiser/bluewater.. which anchor etc etc...
Some of us have covered those questions so many times we are a little stir crazy.. also this is a social cruising forum and some of us like to be social and have a banter.
I don't/won't lecture you on how to post... so back off telling us how to... please..!!
You can always put me on your ignore list...

LOL, so in a post solely dedicated to telling me what not to post, you attempt to claim that you "..don't/won't lecture you on how to post." Too funny! Since you seem much more familiar with ignore lists and how to put someone on it, did it occur to you that you could have just put me on your ignore list and saved yourself the trouble of typing out the above post? hmmm...

But if extreme boredom or being stircrazy makes it THAT important to you that someone turn a thread about 2 particular deadbeats and where they might be into a political one replete with studies of which socioeconomic class tends to be the most dishonest, and nobody's allowed to object to that in your world, then I guess you and I just have different priorities on this CRUISING forum. I really dislike reading, talking or arguing about politics, especially when I log on expecting to read and talk about sailing, ANYTHING about sailing or boats or cruising, guess I'm just not quite THAT stircrazy that I can't stay from politics, and hope to never be. If there were an area of this forum just for political discussions, I'd gladly just stay away from it and be happy to let those who choose to grind whichever political axe they prefer, to have at it without any commentary from me. I'm not familiar with just how this ignore list works, but I'll check into it, and if I can figure it out, I'll be happy to sign you up, so you and those others who are so inclined, can "banter" about politics all you want, and I'll only see the posts of those who prefer to talk about things at least remotely related to sailing. Sounds like a plan!

[boatman61]

ROTFLMAO.... I Surrender... I Surrender...

[cheoah]

Quit kidding yourself folks, these people slinked out Beaufort in the shadows...

They're sailors, and it is the time of year sailors head to the Caribbean. They do not need a motor. The impending hand of the law would have been evident to this pair, all they had to do is get off their lazy arses and sail for warmer climes.

PAt, bless his heart, missed the boat. When someone screws you like they did, you have to be swift and relentless with the law. Like smart criminals, they picked the right guy to screw. That's a compliment to him. They would not waste their time with someone like me, and I can promise that boat would not be in morehead or beyond had they taken $2500 from me, or anyone like me. I'm not talking violence, I'm talking connections, and dirty tricks, but nobody like this pair should get away with what they have. Raise your hand if you think what we know about is all they are guilty of? Ya right. I would at the least have taken all of their sheets and halyards, or had a work boat set something heavy, with 3/4" chain attached to the boat. That would have slowed them down anyway. Folks, $2500 is a lot of money, and had they not willingly given me some reliable security against their debt, I just would not have let them leave. It just doesn't sit right with me, letting them go.

I have mixed feelings about Djikstra towing them to Beaufort inlet. I don't know the guy, the boat is hard to miss. Pat can be cool about it, but everyone in Oriental would have tolerated them in the anchorage a little longer to see this pair face justice. Djikstra, only you can know if you were being a good samaritan, or aiding and abetting criminals. Towing them to the exit to the Carribean was very thoughtful of you, but left PAt screwed. Personally I think you helped the wrong people, but that's your little red wagon to tow... ***Edit*** I really think he was trying to help out the town and tow them away. I think he's a pretty stand up guy as far as I can tell

I'll make sure I leave a picture of the boat, the pair, and the salient facts with the guy at Marina Hemingway. Doubt they'll go there, but we all need to be on the lookout for these clowns so at the least we can warn whoever they are about to rip off.

If they are not in Beaufort/Morehead, and they have not been seen on the waterway, where else could they be? Cape Lookout?

My money is on long-gone.

[jtsailjt]

Cheoah, I think you're right about long gone and am glad to see your edit about the guy who gave them a tow because I haven't seen any suggestion that he had any more idea than the rest of us about the check situation when he did it. Most people just instinctively don't want to help someone who is in the process of cheating a good samaritan but if these clowns were polluting any of our harbors with their presence, I bet most people, unaware of the check scam, would do what they could to help them leave.

This sort of thing was a lot easier to get away with before the Internet was so prevalent but even if they are headed to the Bahamas or Caribbean, I still have hope that somebody will read this or see a poster that somebody puts up and they will be forced to face their accuser. As you say, it would have been a whole lot easier before they left the area, but it can still happen.

[BandB]

There are so many problems to all this. First, there were previous misdemeanors in Oriental, dealt with lightly. Everyone was trying to be nice. However, the check thing was a very kind gesture but the extreme of naivety. Even after finding the check worthless he apparently trusted Pascal would make it good. Now, the local authorities refused to file a criminal claim because of the nature of the check. It was a third party check to Pascal, then endorsed to the store owner. It would have to be proved beyond a reasonable doubt that Pascal knew the check was bad. For a small town district attorney to do that would be either impossible or very costly. They'd have to go back to the origin of the check or prove who printed it. So criminally you had no charge.

That brings us to the civil case. Step one is winning the case. But step two is effecting a judgment. Now a judgment allows enforcement against property. Still though an intervening step. In North Carolina there has to be a right granted to exempt certain property. Now Pascal left before this was faced but had he remained he could well have filed to exempt the boat as his home and may or may not have won that aspect.

Now, however, he crossed state lines and maybe nation lines. Just crossing state lines he got into an entire different group of state laws. Let's say he was located, now you would need to get law enforcement or process servers in that state involved. Still nothing beyond that because it remains a civil case. Even if it was a criminal case, no state will expedite on a case this size but as a civil case they definitely won't. So now you have him located in another state and to enforce you have to go through processes there. Pascal knew exactly when to cut loose and leave. He knew just how hard he could press and when his freeloading ways would end.

He'd lied about how he got there and yet people tolerated and aided him. He's stolen from locals and that was tolerated. He's a con man, plain and simple. But then he got away. He is away. On the remote possibility anything could be done it would cost more than the money involved and ultimately would reap nothing in return. The old line is you can't get blood from a turnip. Well, you can't get anything from a person like him. He's referred to in the legal community as someone who is "Judgment Proof". Does he have assets in France? I doubt it or he wouldn't be floundering around here in Primadonna but it doesn't matter because you're certainly not touching them. Well, unless now you want to engage a French detective and attorney.

No, none of this is right. Well meaning people encouraging his continued abuse of themselves and others wasn't right. Some had hearts too big and bigger than their minds in this instance. There was nothing whatsoever to make one reasonably think he had a legitimate check for that amount. Unfortunately, there are many who believe that if your bank cashes a check that means it's legitimate. That isn't true, of course. In many instances it just means they believe you're good for it, or they can get any lost money back from you. This is how the so labeled "Nigerian Scam" works so effectively. Cash my check and just return me a portion of it. Generally it's either you won a lottery or an inheritance. And, unfortunately, in those cases people don't ever see their money again as the offenders are overseas and unable to be located.

Would I like him to be found? Absolutely, but primarily to warn others. However, based on Oriental I'm not even sure they would listen. Some would but he only needs a few kind hearted souls to give him food, buy him parts, cash checks. He should be arrested for remaining in the country beyond his visa illegally. But that involves costs for both arrest and containment. Then what is the penalty? Extradition. But, who pays to fly him home or is he simply put back on his boat and told to leave again?

There are those in all societies who have found ways to be just dishonest enough to get by with it. They aren't big time criminals but constant nuisances and draining to society. Look at those arrested dozens and even hundreds of times on petty crimes. They sometimes get incarcerated at government expense, just adding more cost to dealing with them. Punishment serves as no determent as they don't mind time in jail. They are released and repeat the crimes. Typically they aren't jailed because of space and cost. So they continue to shoplift (as in this case) or panhandle or purse snatch or steal items from yards.

They are like fleas. They aren't life threatening but they are constantly annoying pests. I'm not talking in any of this about those who have fallen on hard times. I'm very liberal and in favor of providing assistance. But again, go to legitimate programs for help. Don't do petty crime and rob from those who are good hearted or naïve. The reality is that the Pascal's of the world will continue to do their thing. The merchant in Oriental is out his money. I don't know this merchant. I'm surprised locals haven't rallied to help him by seeking donations. Was he doing it all for nothing in return? I'd like to believe so but often for cashing checks like this the person cashing is getting a cut. I don't know more. What I do know is he can plea and create all the feel sorry story he wants, but he's not going to see this money again and if he keeps pursuing he'll only throw more money on top of what he's lost. It's a very tough lesson. It's very sad. The reality sucks.

[lancelot9898]

Well apparently these con artists got a tow from Oriental into the Beaufort inlet. Why has it taken so long to get this information since it seems like that information should have been available from the get go? When did this occur and where were they dropped off? With all the authorities checking boats for holding tank compliance as they make the southern migration down the ICW, I would suspect that these folks might not have that Y valve locked.

[Blue Crab]

Nice try Newt but some of us "knewt" you when ...

Re the French fleas- - I like the characterization -- I think BandB has said what some didn't want to say or hear but know it to be so. I have zero hope the merchant will get his dough back. Moreover, with all the scamming going on in the world, it's troublesome that a storekeeper could have such naiveté in a small community known as a sailor's town, with folks who are well-known to be less than honorable. I can't see it.

They will need provisions soon. Then we'll see them.

[Peter1949]

How long did they stay on the mooring@ moorehead city after they were towed.
I am sure the harbor master knew all about Pascal before the boat was even towed there!
The Bahamas is my guess.They probably still have plenty of Pat's hard earned $.
What goes around comes around.

[boatman61]

If they're not at the top of Taylors Creek they're likely headed S on the other side of the stream... the money they had left after giving the $500 back to win time would have been ample enough to provision and fuel up for the trip.. as to the engine problem.. seems it was not that serious a deal... starter if I remember.. if his engine had a hand crank he's good to go as is.. a starters irrelevant..

[Sand Castle]

OK, here's a little game for everyone in the "Where's Waldo (Primadonna)" discussion. Based on your knowledge of the Atlantic ICW, seasonal weather, and what you know about these characters where is the BEST place they might be??

1. Skulking around NC in other anchorages.
2. Headed on the outside to the Bahamas.
3. Headed down the ICW to some other gullible US port town.
4. Crossing the Atlantic back to France.

They have said their engine is broken, but they have said alot of things.

[boatman61]

My bet is they're running before the wind for St Martin... Bahama's/Puerto Rico/BVI's would be of no use to them..
St Martin they can anchor in Marigot Bay or the Lagoon... there'd be succour for them there French side.. lots of French boats much like theirs there already...
Would not surprise me if they are already there.. they've had long enough..

[bob_77903]

Is this an USA registered boat? Notice the flags. US boat with France courtesy flag on wrong side. Anyway, I wouldn't expect people of their character to know, let alone respect flag protocol. But I do object mightily to the low lives flying my flag (Old Glory) if the boat is French. The wheel of retribution will come around eventual for them....

[Sand crab]

It's illegal for a foreign national to own a US registered boat. They can get around this by using a shill corporation or individual but I doubt that they have the financial resources to do this. I checked the coast guard registry anyway and there are 9 Primadonnas. Is that a steel boat and what's the length?

[boatman61]

It is steel... length 37-39ft but not certain.. doubt its a US reg tho' as according to their tale they sailed it from France..