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Old 11-01-2014, 21:10   #151
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Re: I told everyone to avoid MEXICO. Here we go...

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Originally Posted by Horror Hotel View Post
Maybe the boats are being released because of the media coverage and the US becoming involved rather than in spite of it. Works both ways.

The timing is pretty suspect. AP article comes out, and BAM, results! Right away!
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Old 11-01-2014, 21:34   #152
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Re: I told everyone to avoid MEXICO. Here we go...

I never once assumed that us Americans talking about it could make it any worse, the nightly news or CF. Many on here very much thought that we outta shut up, oh boy we don't wanna piss the Mexican government off. Funny stuff. Reagan talked a-bunch about a fence that never went far. I think 60 miles out of 2000 were built.
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Old 12-01-2014, 02:59   #153
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Re: I told everyone to avoid MEXICO. Here we go...

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Total Complete 100% FALSE. There is NO restriciton that you can not leave your boat in Mexico and make a trip out of the country. Hundreds of cruisers do it every season. This is how Cruiser Rumors Start...I have a friend...I read it online...sheesh.
You can say so, but just like the other side, you provide not a shred of evidence towards your position. Just that hundreds of cruisers do it every season does not mean that it is allowed. I see hundreds of cruisers do illegal things all the time. Drink, smoke, ridicule government, play Pink Floyd, all kinds of illegal things!
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Old 12-01-2014, 04:46   #154
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Re: I told everyone to avoid MEXICO. Here we go...

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Nonsense it may be… but there are many countries where you are only allowed to leave the boat when you have made arrangements with a caretaker, which must then be agreed in a written contract.
Some countries may require this, but we are talking about Pacific Mexico and they don't require it. So why try and make it out that the victims caused their own demise?
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Old 12-01-2014, 06:22   #155
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Re: I told everyone to avoid MEXICO. Here we go...

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Some countries may require this, but we are talking about Pacific Mexico and they don't require it. So why try and make it out that the victims caused their own demise?
I just observe that not a shred of evidence is given by either side. Same for your post above: what do you know of Mexican law? Do you have a permit to practice in Mexico? Where is your link to- or citation from Mexican law that supports your bold statement that it isn't needed? Why would the same law not count for the Caribbean coast? Different laws for different parts of the same country? Sounds like BS to me.

I don't make it sound that "victims caused their own demise". I'm just stating that many cruisers do not have their paperwork or boat up to legal standards required in these modern and exciting times. And those are not "victims", they are just not complying with the letter of the law, while demanding to be treated like if they are the heroes of saving the Mexican economy, while threatening to send gunboats. How much does it take to come down and understand that such arrogance does.not.work.
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Old 12-01-2014, 06:32   #156
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Re: I told everyone to avoid MEXICO. Here we go...

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Originally Posted by s/v Jedi View Post
... I don't make it sound that "victims caused their own demise". I'm just stating that many cruisers do not have their paperwork or boat up to legal standards required in these modern and exciting times. And those are not "victims", they are just not complying with the letter of the law ...
Indeed.
Not unlike our OP's earlier "misunderstanding".

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... I am to blame as I did not do my homework...
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Originally Posted by Panamajames View Post
... The lesson learned here was to understand the country's law better before you enter the country...
From here ➥ Cruising in Mexico (7 Days in a Mexican Jail)
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Old 12-01-2014, 07:01   #157
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Re: I told everyone to avoid MEXICO. Here we go...

Jedi:

From my experience dealing with Mexican officials, yes. Very probably different on the left coast.
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Old 12-01-2014, 07:03   #158
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Re: I told everyone to avoid MEXICO. Here we go...

i really hope that all who promised to remain outside of mexican waters are actually able to stick with their guns, as the area of mexican waters is huge.
my original plan was not to be in mexico..boat told me otherwise..lol...
one cannot preplan ones boats repair schedule..lol
coast of mexico is hugely long...and there are many lovely places to anchor.
these lovely anchorages are not legally usable by those not cleared into mexico.
mexico claims xx miles to sea as their own. make sure you sail well outside that limit.
do no tneed to buy food, diesel or other items for over 3000 miles.
enjoy your cruising.
you will be sorry you missed mexico just because some very small percentage of boat sin mexico were tagged as noncompliant.

exactly how many boats do you folks believe northerners and othgers have vˇbrought into mexico at this point....it is a hella lot mor ethan 400. more like 10,000.
of which ONLY 338 were tagged.
ok does this make it easier to understand the yellow journalism tactics used in this case yet???
if so many thousand boats are ok, why , then is it that the TINY number of tagged boats is being made the biggest item in life...only because richard schindlers boat is part of this...lol
and for someone allegedly so up on his mexican cooperation agenda, why doesnt become down to clear his preshuss boaty????
why doesnt the lot of these small numbers of souls get their behinds down here to clear their allegedly precious boats....

all mexico wants to do is universalize the procedures for entry and tourism and make things same both coasts and as a whole. they are ridding selves of mordida and actually becoming organized.
kudos there.
they do not want your boat. they do not want any more trash left here by northerners who ditch their boat as if it were so much trash never to be seen again....they just want what is here to be legal. why cant folks get with this. is a positive thing, not a negative...uniformity of laws and practices in same nation...unheard of....lol
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Old 12-01-2014, 07:34   #159
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Re: I told everyone to avoid MEXICO. Here we go...

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Originally Posted by CAELESTIS View Post
It's over, chill.

Quelling the rumors...... This just in to Cruising Outpost!
Latest News: Boats Seized in Mexico for Not Having Import Permits Being Released!

Most boats already released in Mexico!
Yesterday all boats from marina Acapulco and Opequimar Vallarya were released. News is next week they will release the rest .

Many boats have not been "importing" their boats into Mexico and paying the $70 fee. So tax agents entered several marinas catering to foreign boats recently and slapped seizure orders on more than 300, The Associated Press reported.
The reason? The boats' owners, mostly American and Canadian retirees who cruise the Pacific and Caribbean coasts, not having a US$70 permit to tie up in Mexico.
U.S. officials are in contact with their Mexican counterparts to discuss the issue, AP said, adding that Canadian Foreign Affairs officials know of three Canadian boats that were seized in the November raids.
The operation is part of the Mexican government's new effort to improve the country's abysmal tax-collection rate, one of the worst among the world's large economies, AP said.
All boaters should have what's called a Temporary Import Permit.The document, which can be obtained online, proves the boats are owned by the permit-holder and affirms the owners will not leave or sell them in Mexico.
Officials inspected more than 1,600 boats at eight marinas and issued seizure orders against 338 that supposedly lacked the permit.
Reports from Mexican authorities have contacted us and told us many boats have already been released, and the rest should be released on Monday.
I received this email from Richard Spindler at Latitude 38...

Chuck and Susan —

A few minor errors. Only a small number of boats — 16 in Vallarta and a few others in Acapulco — have been released. Hundreds remain in "precautionary embargo". No boats were seized in the sense that Mexico took control of them. The embargo just meant the boats weren't permitted to leave their berths. However, you could still live on your boat. Very few boats were embargoed because they didn't have a TIP, as almost every one does. No boats had "seizure orders" — or anything else — slapped on them. Indeed, AGACE has yet to tell any boat owner that their boat is even on the list. Temporary Import Permits don't prove ownership, they prove you don't owe duty on your boat. The boat document is what proves ownership. A Temporary Import Permit does not affirm that an owner will not leave his/her boat in Mexico, as it's actually the document that allows the owner to legally leave the country without their boat. In fact, TIPS were created for just that purpose. Other than that, Bob pretty much nailed it. When he just copies what other people write, he should at least copy people who know what they are talking about.
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Old 12-01-2014, 07:37   #160
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Re: I told everyone to avoid MEXICO. Here we go...

For the one million pesos we put into the Mexican economy in the form of fuel and food purchases this past year, we have no intention of returning. About half of our crew are from there - reading this episode are shaking their respective heads. It's not been stated but maybe a few of them were chartering (illegally) one never knows what caused the "grab". It can't just be the TIP placards!
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Old 12-01-2014, 07:46   #161
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Re: I told everyone to avoid MEXICO. Here we go...

There can be a huge information gap, between what really happened and what has been reported by the media, which has managed to cause a stir, lot of heat, but no real light.
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Old 12-01-2014, 08:18   #162
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Re: I told everyone to avoid MEXICO. Here we go...

Dear OP "Panamajames", are you not dude that checked into Mexico a few years back and plopped down a 45 automatic on the counter and told customs you wanted to declare it, spent a week in jail, and pissed off 6K getting out?
And the tale gets weirder, but we don't need to go there.
If you are in Mexico, obey their laws with respect.
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Old 12-01-2014, 09:32   #163
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Re: I told everyone to avoid MEXICO. Here we go...

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I just observe that not a shred of evidence is given by either side. Same for your post above: what do you know of Mexican law? Do you have a permit to practice in Mexico? Where is your link to- or citation from Mexican law that supports your bold statement that it isn't needed? Why would the same law not count for the Caribbean coast? Different laws for different parts of the same country? Sounds like BS to me.
You're asking for a law that states what someone is allowed to do? Normally laws state what you must or cannot do, they don't list out your liberties. There's no law the United States (or Mexico) that says I'm allowed to watch television two hours a day, but indeed I am.

People leave their boats constantly. Immigration and Aduana are always seeing people flying in and out, boat stamps on their visas then airplane stamps, then boat stamps, then airplane stamps.

And regarding laws not being enforced equally across the country, seriously, have you even been to Mexico? Unequal enforcement and the left hand not knowing what the right is doing is what this place is all about. Mexico is many things but "consistent" is not on the list.

Half of the threads and angry VHF traffic relates to Americans and Canadians trying to put Mexico into the context of a strong federal government model, like their own home countries, where there are laws and one must simply know and follow them to achieve success.

This place is fractured narco cartel state with a government that still operates on the spoils system. Weak centralized authority, nearly autonomous (and fully autonomous) regions beyond the reach of the law, and crippling corruption.

The town to the east of here, Tepic, had six police commissioners in a row assassinated and multi hour military grade weapon shootouts (sans police) were common. Even in La Cruz a year and a half ago a guy was murdered by two vans of sicarios in broad daylight in front of the high school, in session.

So to imagine that a country that has that to contend with someone has its act together when it's time to collect taxes is beyond laughable.
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Old 12-01-2014, 10:03   #164
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Re: I told everyone to avoid MEXICO. Here we go...

govt of mexico is not as out of control as rh claims.he was not even in la cruz when that assassination occurred.was narcos vs narcos and allowed to happen..lol
in mazatlan there were narco vs policia regularly. not in tourist zones predominantly, but behind the hills the inland side of the marinas.
and IFF one were to pay attention, one would see the difference between the recorded activity of 2 1/2 years ago is higher than that recorded since the change in govt. end 2012.
each govt elected deals with la violencia in its own way. govt here is not anarchical, as rh seems to think. he may wish to study and research more the regions he visits.
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Old 12-01-2014, 12:50   #165
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Re: I told everyone to avoid MEXICO. Here we go...

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Originally Posted by s/v Jedi View Post
I just observe that not a shred of evidence is given by either side. Same for your post above: what do you know of Mexican law? Do you have a permit to practice in Mexico? Where is your link to- or citation from Mexican law that supports your bold statement that it isn't needed? Why would the same law not count for the Caribbean coast? Different laws for different parts of the same country? Sounds like BS to me.

I don't make it sound that "victims caused their own demise". I'm just stating that many cruisers do not have their paperwork or boat up to legal standards required in these modern and exciting times. And those are not "victims", they are just not complying with the letter of the law, while demanding to be treated like if they are the heroes of saving the Mexican economy, while threatening to send gunboats. How much does it take to come down and understand that such arrogance does.not.work.
Yes, one coast is often treated different than another. Kinda like your Panama where the fees and Visa length given were different in the Balboa vs Cristobal. Balboa issued a crew visa when Cristobal issued a tourist visa.
There is no requirement to have someone onboard or watch your boat in Mexico while it is on a TIP. Of course many cruisers issues with authorities are due to their own ignorance and arrogance. At other'times it is due to some particular official who has a burr up his butt. At other times it is some official in the capital who made some ruling and it is now systemically flowing down to the field offices. In this particular case it appears to be the latter.
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