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Old 19-04-2016, 09:22   #16
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Re: Hunter Sailboat Abandoned at Sea, Loose Keel Bolts

Egress or ingress is a matter of perspective. If you're in the water, look for ingress. If you're on the hard, look for egress at the hull/keel joint when the boat settles on the keel as that will tell you water got into the joint.
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Old 19-04-2016, 10:06   #17
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Re: Hunter Sailboat Abandoned at Sea, Loose Keel Bolts

Wonder if the poster looked at the video. First couple seconds dates the video very well. Hope it isn't just an attempt to restart old arguments because with enough searching every boat builder can be brought into question. Recent Oyster issues and Swan off of northeast coast much more recent topics.
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Old 19-04-2016, 10:36   #18
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Re: Hunter Sailboat Abandoned at Sea, Loose Keel Bolts

Check your keel bolts! It doesn't matter that this was a Hunter. Nothing "special" about bolted keels on Hunters overall compared to any other manufacturer. There are differences between models and bilge capacity, which only changes the starts/hour of the pump and makes no difference in keeping up with flow unless the starts/hour cause the pump to burn out.
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Old 19-04-2016, 10:57   #19
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Re: Hunter Sailboat Abandoned at Sea, Loose Keel Bolts

Quote:
Originally Posted by nortonscove View Post
Wonder if the poster looked at the video. First couple seconds dates the video very well. Hope it isn't just an attempt to restart old arguments because with enough searching every boat builder can be brought into question. Recent Oyster issues and Swan off of northeast coast much more recent topics.
And I wonder why some posters don't bother to read few posts in a short thread, not even the OP's. Instead just jumping to wrong conclusions

BR Teddy
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Old 19-04-2016, 11:31   #20
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Re: Hunter Sailboat Abandoned at Sea, Loose Keel Bolts

I know it is easy to second guess from the safety of my computer chair and desk but as a veteran of many yacht deliveries some questions come to mind.
1. Did anyone actually see the boat sink? From the video she looked like she was floating nicely on her lines and pretty much undamaged. Maybe she is still out there floating around somewhere.
2. The time it took for the the mayday to go out and the freighter to show up the vessel was still floating nicely, how desperate of a situation could it have been? I think something could of been done to save the vessel, I don't care if all the keel boats were leaking and a major under water hose was off. That model boat has a very small bilge area and it would not have taken much water for the crew to see that the boat was taking on water long before the situation got out of hand and a abandon ship was necessary.
3. Have any of the crew members taken a course in damage control at sea?
I can't help but wonder if this is a case of a crew getting battered by a storm and upon seeing water in the bilge just wanted off the boat. I can't help but think that with some damage control that poor Hunter would of happily and safely gotten it's crew to their destination.
4. More of a case of an ill prepared crew then an ill built boat.
Just my humble opinion
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Old 19-04-2016, 11:52   #21
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Re: Hunter Sailboat Abandoned at Sea, Loose Keel Bolts

4. More of a case of an ill prepared crew then an ill built boat.
Just my humble opinion

I had a transducer come out...an inch and a half hole by the keel...single handing. the bilge pump couldn't keep up so I bailed for a while to get the initial water level down and put some rags in the hole and backed it with some sticks. the bilge pump was able to keep up some. still had to give it a break by bailing now and again. did that for two days till I got to Key west from 200 miles to the NW. did 30 minute cat naps the whole second day. I did radio the USCG and gave them progress reports and location regularly. Made it ashore and hauled the boat.It was a little rough, but nobody said Life was easy and I do have a hard time Just Giving Up.
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Old 19-04-2016, 11:55   #22
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Re: Hunter Sailboat Abandoned at Sea, Loose Keel Bolts

Clamdigger,

I agree with your assessment 100%. Much can be learned by watching the entire video including the interview.

1. Their sails were fine.

2. Water seeping in via the keel bolts could be dealt with. If I remember correctly... Our Hunter had a manual bilge pump in the cockpit, if the leak was slow and the pump had been properly serviced, then sure.... there's no reason to call for a rescue. IMHO

3. Drinking water could be obtained via the existing water tanks.

Even the captain of the merchant ship looked surprised after questioning the crew that they didn't continue. He asked the right questions.
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Old 19-04-2016, 12:01   #23
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Re: Hunter Sailboat Abandoned at Sea, Loose Keel Bolts

Quote:
Originally Posted by nortonscove View Post
Wonder if the poster looked at the video. First couple seconds dates the video very well. Hope it isn't just an attempt to restart old arguments because with enough searching every boat builder can be brought into question. Recent Oyster issues and Swan off of northeast coast much more recent topics.
This video has not yet been discussed on this forum to the best of my knowledge. I don't think it hurts to watch what happened, then discuss preventative measures so that the rest of us can avoid he same situation.
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Old 19-04-2016, 12:32   #24
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Re: Hunter Sailboat Abandoned at Sea, Loose Keel Bolts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clamdigger62 View Post
I know it is easy to second guess from the safety of my computer chair and desk but as a veteran of many yacht deliveries some questions come to mind.
1. Did anyone actually see the boat sink? From the video she looked like she was floating nicely on her lines and pretty much undamaged. Maybe she is still out there floating around somewhere.
2. The time it took for the the mayday to go out and the freighter to show up the vessel was still floating nicely, how desperate of a situation could it have been? I think something could of been done to save the vessel, I don't care if all the keel boats were leaking and a major under water hose was off. That model boat has a very small bilge area and it would not have taken much water for the crew to see that the boat was taking on water long before the situation got out of hand and a abandon ship was necessary.
3. Have any of the crew members taken a course in damage control at sea?
I can't help but wonder if this is a case of a crew getting battered by a storm and upon seeing water in the bilge just wanted off the boat. I can't help but think that with some damage control that poor Hunter would of happily and safely gotten it's crew to their destination.
4. More of a case of an ill prepared crew then an ill built boat.
Just my humble opinion
2.We do not know how much water they were dealing with. They said the keelbolts were moving so it could have been substantial amount for hand bailing for several days and possibly worsening by the hour.
3. Can't see how a course in damage control helps if you don't have any tool to tighten the keel bolts
4. Boat delivery. Bad or lacking maintenance by the owner. Design flaw if some water kills the batteries et al..

Just another view, not my opinion..

BR Teddy
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Old 19-04-2016, 12:44   #25
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Re: Hunter Sailboat Abandoned at Sea, Loose Keel Bolts

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Originally Posted by Brewgyver View Post
"Most boats"??? I think if you check the numbers you'll find that most non-trailerable boats are in the water year round.

And "water egress"? I guess if you're on the hard, you could look for water coming out of the hull? Or do you mean ingress? I let it go the first time...
Yes, out of the water in most places especially when you get well north or south of the equator or in the Mediterranean. Boats are taken out, wrapped up and made to be weather tight, because we have an annual event called winter. Winter = high winds, rain, snow, freezing temps, etc. Not a good idea to keep the boat in the water.

So... when the boat is out of the water, we look for signs of egress in the form of water streaks running down the keel from the keel joint.
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Old 19-04-2016, 13:00   #26
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Re: Hunter Sailboat Abandoned at Sea, Loose Keel Bolts

Hello Teddy.
A course in damage control teaches to never go to sea without tools for one.
The major thing that bothered me from the beginning is that it had to of been hours from the time the mayday went out until the freighter arrived on scene and the boat was still floating on her lines so how much water could there have been to deal with.
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Old 19-04-2016, 13:07   #27
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Re: Hunter Sailboat Abandoned at Sea, Loose Keel Bolts

I also remember our 450 having a separate battery for the engine with a switch to combine or separate the engine battery from the house bank. Why wasn't the engine run in order to prevent depleting the batteries, or why weren't the two banks separated in order to prevent the discharge?
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Old 19-04-2016, 14:21   #28
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Re: Hunter Sailboat Abandoned at Sea, Loose Keel Bolts

I agree with all that has been said. I was taught that you only abandon ship if you are stepping up into your life raft. The look on the captain's face when he asked if the sails were all destroyed by the storm and they replied "no" tells it all. Of course I was not there so I cannot judge them. They made the decision to abandon ship and they are alive to talk about it, so their decision was successful. The lesson to take from this event is to always double check your keel bolts before sailing across an ocean. It looked like a nice boat. I wonder if anyone salvaged it or if the coastguard scuttled it?
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Old 19-04-2016, 17:24   #29
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Re: Hunter Sailboat Abandoned at Sea, Loose Keel Bolts

Lately, too many people seem to call for rescue when things get a little uncomfortable, or the situation morphs into something they didn't bargain for or anticipate.

It's not like the keel had fallen off, the rudder had broken off or the sails were ripped to shreds. I assume the three of them had some buckets for bailing, and one of them could certainly have been sailing the boat towards Hawaii.
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Old 19-04-2016, 18:10   #30
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Re: Hunter Sailboat Abandoned at Sea, Loose Keel Bolts

The decision was made to Abandon Ship while they had good weather, the rescue was easy and safe, everyone is OK . The skipper did his job well and I support his decision, I don't need to know any more or be critical of him in any way.
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