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Old 24-09-2012, 22:31   #1
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Hudson 50 To Windward

I have a hudson 50 which i use as a charter boat in the cook islands , a great boat very seakindly but wont point to windward at all . the previous owner used to motor sail everywhere.i want it to sail . has anyone got any ideas. it seems best with a 1205 headsail and a 2nd reef main. if it blows 15 kts i have around 9 degs of rudder to keep it straight .coming back from palmerston island the other day we had 4m swells and 30 knt and at times it would blow off down wind ,scary
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Old 25-09-2012, 01:19   #2
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Re: hudson 50 to windward

G'Day Bizzy,

Long distance analysis of sailing problems is dicey at best, but here are some things to consider:

1. The Hudson 50 and all of its sisters will never be a good boat to windward, but it should do better than that!

2. First thing, is the hull foul? A boat that struggles to sail very high to windward will be really handicapped by even a bit of weed or shell on the hull.

3. How old are the sails? If the boat requires 2 reefs in the main in 15 knots, and develops a weather helm (the nine degrees are weather helm, aren't they?) it sounds likely that that the main is badly blown out, with way too much draft way too far aft. A big boat like that should be able to carry full working sail up to at least 20 knots, probably a good deal more... if the sails are in good shape.

So, check out those things and get back to us... and start figuring out where to get some new sails (I bet).

Cheers,

Jim
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Old 25-09-2012, 11:13   #3
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Re: hudson 50 to windward

Hi Thanks for that you are probably right the mains a bit loose at the foot .the boat is clean , i was wondering more about mast rake .also i have fitted a roller headsail ,and am concerened about the forstay tension. the stay has a lot of curve in it when into the wind. about 200mm in the middle. thanks
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Old 25-09-2012, 14:31   #4
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Re: hudson 50 to windward

Well, here's another question: you mention 9 degrees of rudder angle to windward in very modest conditions. You also mention her "blowing off downwind" in a moderate breeze downwind. I assumed that the 9 degrees were weather helm, but now I'm wondering... since weather helm and "blowing off downwind" are kinda contradictory conditions. If the nine degrees is LEE helm, then there is a problem with your sail plan, and that will influence windward ability adversely. And yes, adjusting the mast rake will influence helm balance

As to the forestay, that is a fairly large sag, but not unusual in a boat of your size. Normally your sailmaker will have compensated for sag in the cut of the sail, but that doesn't always work out so well.

How is the mainmast head rigged? Triatic stay, permanent backstay(s)? Is there some way to increase tension there, or to tighten up the forestay itself? Reducing sag will usually flatten the sail and that in turn reduces heeling forces.

Incidentally, keeping sag out of the forestay also makes it easier to furl the genoa, so it's a win/win situation!

Cheers,

Jim
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Old 25-09-2012, 16:57   #5
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Re: Hudson 50 To Windward

Hi, when the wind is on starboard ,the wheel needs to be right hand down to keep course. if the boat gets way of course down wind it is really hard to get it back upwind,without obviously easing sails , i usually am sailing with a main and jenoha not the missin.the main mast is fairly well perpendicular the missin has heaps of rake , its a little bit hard to trim as we are directly into the ocean swells and no land marks to go by thanks again .
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Old 25-09-2012, 21:20   #6
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Re: Hudson 50 To Windward

Bizzy, I'm not quite sure what you mean by "right hand down". Are you saying that when on starboard tack you need to have the wheel turned to starboard to stay on course?

If so, that is a severe case of LEE helm. Weather helm is when the boat tries to turn up into the wind if you release the wheel, and what I think you are saying is the opposite.

One way to correct lee helm is to rake the top of the main mast back towards the stern. Another is to use the mizzen too. It will try to push the bow up into the wind, and perhaps your boat really needs that help. Another way is to use the whole main instead of reefing in 15 knots of wind. If the boat is overpowered with that amount of sail and wind there is something wrong... as I said, I would expect her to carry full working sail up into the twenties at least and be happy about it.

And FWIW, lee helm will make it harder to get to windward. It increases drag and reduces lift, resulting in slower speeds and greater leeway. Bad, bad, bad!

Cheers,

Jim
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Old 26-09-2012, 01:12   #7
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Re: Hudson 50 To Windward

wow , now we are getting somewhere, you explain it so well .it is exactly what is happening, the reason i dont use the missin often is because we have a full canopy under the boom and its so hard to get the sail down and away , maybe i need to try harder or come up with a solution
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Old 28-09-2012, 00:37   #8
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Re: Hudson 50 To Windward

Hi Its just a bit better but i an thinking the sails worn out too much stretch ......how do i load on photos , thanks
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Old 28-09-2012, 02:06   #9
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Re: Hudson 50 To Windward

Jim's got you going the right way. Many ketches don't like to sail to weather without the mizzen up, it totally unbalances the sail plan. The mizzen is there strictly to cause the boat to head up, balancing the sail plan upwind. Watch your rudder angle indicator while adjusting sheet tension and sail shape on your main and mizzen, with some practice you ought to be able to balance the helm on any point of sail. This is the whole point of a ketch rig. Of course blown out sails don't help either, but they shouldn't cause that severe a problem.
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