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Amblecampbell · 18-09-2014, 12:51

Scarlet - cruising is all about mucking around on boats. The people you meet and places you see will keep you going, but you have to start. We moved onto our boat 3 years ago, and have spent the last 18 months in the Med. Spent last winter as part of a live-aboard community in a marina in Sicily, and so many had stories of starting to sail in their mid-50's/60s.
Flotilla sailing sounds like a good way to get on the water under the control of experienced sailors who lead the group. I've never done this, but seems to be a good way to learn about being onboard - albeit for a short period - on someone else's boat. And in good sailing locations.
I've been sailing for the last 45 years, including a fair bit of ocean racing, but still make plenty of mistakes and am learning all the time. When you do make the leap and go cruising full time you'll quickly drop the shore-based ego and realise everyone makes mistakes, and most cruisers are more than willing to help any time it's needed.
In the meantime, you can ignore the above and just enjoy mucking around on your own boat!

Cadence · 18-09-2014, 13:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by jwing

Three more thoughts:

1) Docking is easier when you go backwards. Get the rudder up, then put the motor in reverse and use it to pull the boat out of the marina. Way better control. Back into the marina, too. Makes single-handed docking much easier.

2)You do have a boat hook, right?

3) Don't worry about the future transition to catamaran sailing. In my experience, the skill set differerences are negligible, except for storm tactics, which, at this point, should be very deep on your list of skills to acquire.

Right on, you steer the stern.

In Training · 18-09-2014, 13:31

Scarlet: I retire in 3.5 years, with a similar plan -- but you are way ahead of us.
We have no boat. Had them when we were young and lived on lakes, but that was 35 years ago.

We are getting scuba certified over the next two weeks (good for diving on anchor and cleaning bottom of boat, as well as just enjoyment). We also have booked a week with water sailing">Blue Water sailing school living on a 43 or 44 footer March 13, 2015 in St. Thomas to get sailing certifications and then a condo and week of diving after that. Should be an awesome vacation and learning all rolled into one, with great weather compared to our awful winters.
Need to learn Spanish yet or anything else one would run into from Florida to Grenada or ABC islands. You might look into to that as you have 6 years and could get pretty good at another language in that time.

We have no plans to cross an ocean, ever, just the thought of that scares me, so you are ahead of us there emotionally.

So basically we've just been reading everything we could get our hands on, where you have actually sailed a couple of times! Way to go!

Don't be surprised if everyone thinks you are nuts. You realize you are throwing your money away on a boat, you have no idea what it is like to live on one and you will find you don't like it and then all that money will be gone. After the first storm you'll come home. You're too old (we are 63 and 64). You'll never be able to handle a sailboat and lift the sail or anchor (I guess they think everything is still all manual). etc. etc. etc. etc. What will you do when this happens, what will you do when that happens, etc. Like nobody has ever done it before and nobody else is out there! Haven't you tried to talk them out of this (heard that one too from a friend of my parents.) People are nuts. Retire, stay home, play cards, wait to die.
What a life that would be to look forward to. Anytime you have any doubts, just look around at the people that stop being active and how physically they crumble in their 60's -- your dream will keep you healthy for years to come.

**JPA Cate** · 18-09-2014, 13:35

Docking backwards is certainly something they could try, but guys, it really depends on the boat whether or not it is easy to steer in reverse. Those without spade rudders may find it is a bit tricky, and so will some full keel boats. For Scarlet and her partner, I'd think practising both ways would help them learn, just learn what you can make work.

Once out of the slip they could easily set up a "pen" marked by floats (we've used rocks for anchors and inflated wine bladders for buoys) to practice docking in. It's free, and all the experience leads to confidence.

Ann

jwing · 19-09-2014, 06:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ann T. Cate

Docking backwards is certainly something they could try, but guys, it really depends on the boat whether or not it is easy to steer in reverse.
Ann

Scarlet's boat is an O'Day 22. I'm guessing it is one with a swing keel since most are. The engine is an outboard motor. My advice to back out and in (with the rudder out of the water and the keel raised) was specific to Scarlet's situation right now. They need to get out and sail. But first, they need a non-scary way to get in and out of the marina. When going backward with an outboard, the motor goes where it is pointed and the boat follows the motor.

**HappyMdRSailor** · 19-09-2014, 06:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ann T. Cate

So far, I think the advice is going well.

I'd like to second Happy MD's suggestion of keeping a log. If done right, it'll point you in the right directions for further learning, and figuring out what goes wrong. Do not expect a straight line up growth curve. Some days are better than others.

Do a Google search here on CF to find posts about getting boats out of difficult slips. Southern Star gave you good advice there. Once that rear spring is on, skipper uses the throttle to keep the boat under control (prop wash over rudder keeps steerage).

Stop helping each other talk each other out of going out. It can become a habit, and is counter productive.

You need to practice docking, both of you, and over and over again. Make sure the prop is clean and also the bottom, because it will make the boat steer more easily. Spend as many mornings practicing docking as you can. Figure out what goes wrong. You may need to come in faster to overcome the effects of the wind on the boat. Many of us have hit the dock with our boat, but it's better than squashing the guy next door. (And, fender both sides of the boat for this practice session. To protect both boats.)

Ann

+1 Ann !

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeepbluetj

It's also fun.

According to post #23, she does. She's terrified of docking, and that's reducing sailing time and overall enjoyment of the boat.

This is their starter boat - they're not planning on going 'round the horn in a 22 ft boat- it's to gain valuable experience. If docking is inhibiting that, they need to gain confidence and experience docking. And that confidence definitely will transfer to their "real" cruising boat.

Agreed... per the statement...

Scarlet???? It's FRIDAY.... Pack your seabag girl.... Just go... Do anything, but not too much... slow n' steady she goes...

Mike OReilly · 19-09-2014, 07:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by HappyMdRSailor

Scarlet???? It's FRIDAY.... Pack your seabag girl.... Just go... Do anything, but not too much... slow n' steady she goes...

Ditto on this (and Ann), just go and do something. If you can't sail, go to the boat and fix something, clean or tweak, think through how you would get off and on the dock. Go slow, have fun. Success and joy breeds confidence and further action.

I used to sail an O'Day 22. Great little boats. Lots of fun to sail. Go at your own pace, but just make sure you keep pushing. You'll get there when YOU'RE ready.

Why go fast, when you can go slow

**HappyMdRSailor** · 19-09-2014, 07:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

Ditto on this (and Ann), just go and do something. If you can't sail, go to the boat and fix something, clean or tweak, think through how you would get off and on the dock. Go slow, have fun. Success and joy breeds confidence and further action.

I used to sail an O'Day 22. Great little boats. Lots of fun to sail. Go at your own pace, but just make sure you keep pushing. You'll get there when YOU'RE ready.

Why go fast, when you can go slow

Mike... Is this where we keep up the poking until we get a confirmation... "OK! I'm at the boat already! ... You can stop now!"

thinwater · 19-09-2014, 08:17

Docking. To me, this is like parrallel parking a car; it was a sad day when many states removed this from permit requirements. It is a basic demonstration that you understand how a car manuvers and that you have control in tight spaces.

Yes, it is rare that I moor between 4 pilings when cruising, in part because I have a cat. But I do back into my home slip every day.

Close quarters handling skills are needed to...
* get fuel
* pump out holding tank
* lend assistance to other vessles
* MOB. Yes, this can be done under sail, but if short handed that is mostly wishful thinking.
* raft-up
* haul for paint
* Dock. It is going to happen once in a while.
* Put people ashore, perhaps sick. Could use a dingy, but sometimes that's plain silly. Can the sick/injured person climb into the dingy in a rough, open anchorage?

And the above are all going to happen with currents and tides diferent from your home slip, just to make things more complicated. The slip/possition will be a different size. It could be during a storm and it aint' time for excuses.

I'm one that feels a true sailor is comfortable docking with wind and current from every quarter, when other boats are too close for comfort, without assistance from dock hands. sometimes the answer is anchoring, but not always. Fair weather sailing is dead simple compared to all of the other cruiser skills. Parking is one of them.

While some may only dock (0.1% was the number quoted) once every 3 years, the rest of us live in a differnt world. I've never been able to stretch fuel that far.

Anchoring is important too. This isn't an either/or question, you need both to be rock solid.

Mike OReilly · 19-09-2014, 08:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by HappyMdRSailor

Mike... Is this where we keep up the poking until we get a confirmation... "OK! I'm at the boat already! ... You can stop now!"

Yup ;-)

Why go fast, when you can go slow

tomfl · 19-09-2014, 09:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeepbluetj

It's also fun.

According to post #23, she does. She's terrified of docking, and that's reducing sailing time and overall enjoyment of the boat.

SNIP.

If the truth be known I am terrified of docking as well.

And I have been on boats since the 1950s. But I would point out my understanding is that docking is not the same as getting a boat into a slip. While some times you can to go to a dock to get gas and water my experience has been most of the gas and water on my boat got there via jerry cans. Especially in more remote areas docks (and lets not forget all docks are not created equally) may simply not exist.

Another point is that most modern cats have two screws often placed well forward of the stern meaning they can turn in their own length. Many cats are easier to control than monohulls when docking, entering a slip, or picking up a mooring ball.

Bottom line is that as others have posted most cruisers spend a lot more time at anchor than at a dock, in a slip, or on a ball. Good ground tackle and knowing how to use it are more important than docking skills IMHO.